Posted - 2009.09.26 01:27:00 - [2]

 

Yeah, seeing them fire from different areas would be pretty sweet.

But I'm sure someone will chime in with an arpee explaination shortly.

Posted - 2009.09.26 01:35:00 - [4]

 

Or a technical explanation.

Posted - 2009.09.26 01:59:00 - [6]

 

Edited by: Amy Kei on 26/09/2009 01:59:42

Originally by: Taedrin

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Originally by: Blane Xero

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Edited by: Blane Xero on 26/09/2009 01:33:26
Missiles are spawned at the center point of your ship, they are ALSO actual objects unlike "bullets". Because of this, it would take much more calculations if every missile had to see check which launcher it was fired from...what position on the ship to spawn it from... etc. Unlike turrets which only show an animation when you fire.

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Not a proper justification. Missiles don't participate in collision detection, so their actual position when rendered in the scene is unimportant. As such, this task could be easily delegated to the client, which has plenty of spare CPU power to crunch said computations.

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Aren't those computations the same as turrets?

Like.. If I activate turret 1, then these two turrets should fire depending on how the ship is angled..

Wouldn't the principle be the same with missile launchers? Except that there is only 1 physical launcher on the ship rather than 2 turrets?

Infact, missiles never miss, they just can do no damage. In the end, the missile goes from Point A, to Point B.

Posted - 2009.09.26 02:21:00 - [8]

 

Originally by: Amy Kei

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Infact, missiles never miss, they just can do no damage. In the end, the missile goes from Point A, to Point B.

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There is so much wrong with this statement all i need to do is quote it to emphasise the incorrectness.

But since i'm nice, Missiles Miss alot. Mostly when they fail to reach their target.

Posted - 2009.09.26 03:53:00 - [10]

 

Originally by: Amy Kei

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Edited by: Amy Kei on 26/09/2009 01:59:42

Originally by: Taedrin

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Originally by: Blane Xero

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Edited by: Blane Xero on 26/09/2009 01:33:26
Missiles are spawned at the center point of your ship, they are ALSO actual objects unlike "bullets". Because of this, it would take much more calculations if every missile had to see check which launcher it was fired from...what position on the ship to spawn it from... etc. Unlike turrets which only show an animation when you fire.

---

Not a proper justification. Missiles don't participate in collision detection, so their actual position when rendered in the scene is unimportant. As such, this task could be easily delegated to the client, which has plenty of spare CPU power to crunch said computations.

---

Aren't those computations the same as turrets?

Like.. If I activate turret 1, then these two turrets should fire depending on how the ship is angled..

Wouldn't the principle be the same with missile launchers? Except that there is only 1 physical launcher on the ship rather than 2 turrets?

Infact, missiles never miss, they just can do no damage. In the end, the missile goes from Point A, to Point B.

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No, they're not. Turrets do NOT fire a actual "shell" or "bullet" - all that happens is a firing animation on the client's end, and a calculation on the server as to whether it hits, and what damage is done. This is handwaved in the EvE lore by having all guns insta-hit.

Missiles, on the other hand, have a actual object coming out of the "launcher", unlike a gun. And unlike a gun, that object can be shot down bu Defender missiles, so the calculations clientside and serverside are a bit different. If what you suggested was implemented...

Let's take that example of a Drake. Remembering that the more objects the client has to keep track of, the more lag happens - ESPECIALLY since it's not just you on that particular blade...

You get into the mission area, you have a bunch of NPCs doing whatever they're supposed to be doing in that mission (Let's say Blockade, level 3). That starts off with 7 ships, BCs, frigates, and a trigger dessie. You start firing - FIRST VOLLEY: Increase objects on screen by 7, followed by 7 MORE objects as your launchers go to autofire, Rinse and repeat. ALL of these objects, in your plan, would have to be tracked separately and their hit chances calculated. And the slowdown starts happening... Multiply by say 80 (decent day, mission hub) and you can imagine the lag caused on that blade. Repeat across the entire EvE cluster...

That's why, when weapon grouping was introduced, instead of firing a group of onjects only ONE is fired, with it's apparent size increasing according to the number of "objects" it's supposed to have. In reality it doesn't... and if a Defender hits it, it's valuues are reduced by oen missile's worth. People use this to exploit a unintended consequence of the Defender implementation, in that the chance of a Defender firing is based onthe number of objects being fired.

I think you see the point by now - EVERYONE doing that would kill the server rather quickly, depending on fits of course.

Posted - 2009.09.26 05:02:00 - [12]

 

Originally by: Blane Xero

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Originally by: Amy Kei

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Infact, missiles never miss, they just can do no damage. In the end, the missile goes from Point A, to Point B.

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There is so much wrong with this statement all i need to do is quote it to emphasise the incorrectness.

But since i'm nice, Missiles Miss alot. Mostly when they fail to reach their target.

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I agree with you concerning the missile damage, effect etc., but regarding the animation involved with missiles... last time I got shot at, I had the impression that even missiles that would explode before really hitting me due to range limits showed an animation of it exploding against my armor. In fact, even looking like they were exploding and hitting me, no dmg was done (that´s when I figured out that they were out of range).

Posted - 2009.09.26 06:07:00 - [14]

 

Edited by: Amy Kei on 26/09/2009 06:13:28
Edited by: Amy Kei on 26/09/2009 06:12:41
Edited by: Amy Kei on 26/09/2009 06:08:31

Originally by: Arkeladin

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Originally by: Amy Kei

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Edited by: Amy Kei on 26/09/2009 01:59:42

Originally by: Taedrin

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Originally by: Blane Xero

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Edited by: Blane Xero on 26/09/2009 01:33:26
Missiles are spawned at the center point of your ship, they are ALSO actual objects unlike "bullets". Because of this, it would take much more calculations if every missile had to see check which launcher it was fired from...what position on the ship to spawn it from... etc. Unlike turrets which only show an animation when you fire.

---

Not a proper justification. Missiles don't participate in collision detection, so their actual position when rendered in the scene is unimportant. As such, this task could be easily delegated to the client, which has plenty of spare CPU power to crunch said computations.

---

Aren't those computations the same as turrets?

Like.. If I activate turret 1, then these two turrets should fire depending on how the ship is angled..

Wouldn't the principle be the same with missile launchers? Except that there is only 1 physical launcher on the ship rather than 2 turrets?

Infact, missiles never miss, they just can do no damage. In the end, the missile goes from Point A, to Point B.

---

No, they're not. Turrets do NOT fire a actual "shell" or "bullet" - all that happens is a firing animation on the client's end, and a calculation on the server as to whether it hits, and what damage is done. This is handwaved in the EvE lore by having all guns insta-hit.

Missiles, on the other hand, have a actual object coming out of the "launcher", unlike a gun. And unlike a gun, that object can be shot down bu Defender missiles, so the calculations clientside and serverside are a bit different. If what you suggested was implemented...

Let's take that example of a Drake. Remembering that the more objects the client has to keep track of, the more lag happens - ESPECIALLY since it's not just you on that particular blade...

You get into the mission area, you have a bunch of NPCs doing whatever they're supposed to be doing in that mission (Let's say Blockade, level 3). That starts off with 7 ships, BCs, frigates, and a trigger dessie. You start firing - FIRST VOLLEY: Increase objects on screen by 7, followed by 7 MORE objects as your launchers go to autofire, Rinse and repeat. ALL of these objects, in your plan, would have to be tracked separately and their hit chances calculated. And the slowdown starts happening... Multiply by say 80 (decent day, mission hub) and you can imagine the lag caused on that blade. Repeat across the entire EvE cluster...

That's why, when weapon grouping was introduced, instead of firing a group of onjects only ONE is fired, with it's apparent size increasing according to the number of "objects" it's supposed to have. In reality it doesn't... and if a Defender hits it, it's valuues are reduced by oen missile's worth. People use this to exploit a unintended consequence of the Defender implementation, in that the chance of a Defender firing is based onthe number of objects being fired.

I think you see the point by now - EVERYONE doing that would kill the server rather quickly, depending on fits of course.

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I'm only really suggesting a visual change, I wouldn't even mind a single launcher, at least it wouldn't randomly spawn at the center of the ship. I'll just think of it as each launcher enabling another tube on the "main" launcher, each ship with a maximum tube amount corresponding to its launcher capable slots.
Either a 360 mounted launcher(s) (Top and bottom of ship) or something like a turret that turns really fast, something visually appealing while also wouldn't change the calculations. As it is, It looks really weird having missiles fly through a ship, rather than above or below it cause they have to spawn at the ship's center. Or even from its sides....

Posted - 2009.09.26 07:46:00 - [16]

 

If it aint broke, don't fix it (or it will soon be broken.)

That's a lot of hassle for no real significant gain. As explained, missiles do participate in collision detection since they're able to be shot down.

If you wanted to place even just a single visible launcher on each ship, you're talking about needing to make a different point of origin for missiles on each hull. As it works now, it's very simple and it reduces the number of things that can go wrong. It's really more work than it seems.

Posted - 2009.09.26 09:22:00 - [18]

 

Originally by: Jonas Winch

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Not sure if it's been mentioned here, but do do look closely at Drake's sides.

What do you see?

Is dat sum launchors perhaps?

*imagines missiles being launched from them*

*dies with a smile on his face*

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As a Caldari Drake *****, I have to say, I would cream to see my drake actually fire missiles from those launchers on the side.

Posted - 2009.09.26 15:53:00 - [20]

 

Originally by: WhiteWarp

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If it aint broke, don't fix it (or it will soon be broken.)

That's a lot of hassle for no real significant gain. As explained, missiles do participate in collision detection since they're able to be shot down.

If you wanted to place even just a single visible launcher on each ship, you're talking about needing to make a different point of origin for missiles on each hull. As it works now, it's very simple and it reduces the number of things that can go wrong. It's really more work than it seems.

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This is a pointless statement.


Eve graphics in '03 weren't broke, what was the point of upgrading to trinity graphics when there was "no sufficient gain".

It's all about aesthetics, and the fact that CCP can't somehow get over this seemingly impossible task of updating the missile graphics is pretty lame tbh.

If the "object" thing is a problem, why not keep that system but change the visual effect, e.g. firing effect you see missiles come out of seperate tubes and then form into the one blob etc. etc.


With all their prowess for programming at CCP, surely they can figure it out