Posted - 2009.12.13 21:52:00 - [2582]

 

87 pages of thread Oo

but yay, my vaga is double awesome now and my tempest is less of a sucker

Posted - 2009.12.14 19:17:00 - [2584]

 

Originally by: Nuts Nougat

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But but but... My lasers... They eat cap...

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Just for sure: not the Apoc has the largest cap, and the best cap recharge rate among the BS class? Not all Amarrian BS has the largest cap, and the best cap recharge rate in the same Tier BS's? Even if the gap are seem to be thin, all basic changes start from there...

Posted - 2009.12.16 11:44:00 - [2586]

 

/mantra chant

Posted - 2009.12.16 15:07:00 - [2588]

 

Removing tachyons would probably balance things at least. :p

Posted - 2009.12.17 08:13:00 - [2590]

 

Originally by: Roland Thorne

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Edited by: Roland Thorne on 17/12/2009 04:40:46
Edited by: Roland Thorne on 17/12/2009 04:29:04
Fitting my new tempest last night made me grin :P

We'll see how long the carnage will last til the fun gets nerfed lol

Edit: grrr

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Not quite there yet eh?

Posted - 2009.12.17 17:14:00 - [2592]

 

Edited by: Seriously Bored on 17/12/2009 17:15:00
Just reporting that I've liked the changes so far, even the artillery (though I've only fired at a few people at random, and with Tremor).

I don't fly in massive 0.0 fleets, so the "fail" is probably just not apparent to me.

ED: I particularly enjoy the Vargur being a top-tier mission ship now...feels nice to not have wasted the SP.

Posted - 2009.12.17 23:48:00 - [2594]

 

Not to mention two-shotting the cheaper BS's, splashing anything cruiser-ish sized into a cloud of vapor, and being able to pretty much bypass the "tank" on the higher end rats.

And, most of all:

Who doesn't love seeing "You hit XXX for 14768 damage"

Posted - 2009.12.24 05:47:00 - [2596]

 

Auto tiers were adjusted for the better, ammo is sorted much nicer now, and has bonuses for close range, and arties have more alpha.

Now with the bad...

Tempest was ignored, Nag is useless again, and the only long-range ammo worth shooting is the t2 Tremor, and it shouldn't be that way.

Seriously, I'd also like to see minmatar have more of a racial speed difference, but that is about likely to happen as hell freezing over or amarr being nerfed. That don't matter much now though, cause for better or for worse, Minmatar is now, by design, a close-combat race.

Posted - 2009.12.24 11:11:00 - [2598]

 

Yeah, the word useless probably is overused.

Tempest has been improved by the ammo and mod changes, but otherwise unchanged. Lately however, I've been using a lot of shield fits, and I have to agree with others that it really shines with shield tanks. Its great being able to play with dps mods!

Its been my dirty little secret, but the phoon changes have not made me very happy, and I was eager to see something good with the tempest because its better with gunnery. Never have had very good results with missiles, and never cared for them anyways.

Originally by: Seishi Maru

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The only useless ship minmatar had recently was the naglfar on the Nohz short aged concept.

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/signed

They had good timing to make the final changes to that ship when I was deciding which skillbook to get, but not everyone's luck held up :(

Posted - 2009.12.24 19:25:00 - [2600]

 

Originally by: Seishi Maru

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Edited by: Seishi Maru on 24/12/2009 12:21:52On my way to see it. We already have a gunboat shield tanker on mesltrom. Issue is.. active bonus is horribly inferior to resists, and the shield tanker ship is a slugish whale. The armor tanker gunboat is the agile one.. a little bit wtf on that. Typhoon is a completely different ship. Is a ship focused on the concept that I can fit as many weapons that I don t even need dumb damage mods!!!) And has a different usage then gunboats. Its excelent on what it does altough.

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Pattern's proposal addresses these issues very well I think, even if he did not make it fully palatable :)

The tempest fills the hole between the slugger 'phoon, and the (wth?) confused mael which is still not sure if it truly wants to be used in a fleet or not!

Originally by: Seishi Maru

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Slow shield tanker and agile armor tankers does not match very well. The proposition to make tempest 7/6/6 could work well , but must be made with carefull considerations. Because by itself the layout change does not make the tempest better than maelstrom at any role. It makes it worse at armor tank RR gangs, while ship still not agile enough to be on the gangs that prefer shields ..the smaller roaming ones.... The proposition to increase its damage bonus and remove missile launchers is nice.. but I think ccp will not accept it. Not because its overpowered, but because they are adverse to not be standarized on the 5% values.

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Tempest and 'canes ARE gunships. I cry a little in my beer (don't tell anyone) when I see a pest or 'cane die with more then two launchers on it. Seems inane to be told by ccp that dps numbers should include launchers... this is wrong because the pest <theoretically> should be able to dish out respectable dps while still packing rr or nuets, etc. The mael is a great solo ship for pve or pvp, but it cannot fill this role as good as the tempest. Tbh, all we need on the tempest is the same flexibility of roles that the 'cane enjoys coupled with great projectile dps, and it will be fixed. No one accuses the cane of being a great tanker obviously, but people still love that ship.

Originally by: Seishi Maru

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the 7/6/6 approach could work IF shield transporters were fully reviewed, if tempest got more agility (no need for more speed. Agility is only useful on BS scale when you are agile enough to warp UNDER 10 seconds. Because 10 secodns is the hard limit that all BS are bound due to MWD trick.

Solving the identity issues is not easy. Simply removign tempest from armor tanker position doe snto sovel it.. just change its blurring from typhoon into maelstrom. Some sbutle work is needed on the combination tempest maelstrom is needed to achieve a good result.

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You are right about shields, and it does bother me to be running shields when most gangs do use armor. However, with agility bumped even slightly, its feasible to run with a slight armor buffer and still fill its role.

Its not hard to solve the tempest's blurring with the mael; ccp just has to focus on projectiles and not be distracted by missile dps bumping its numbers up in eft, and thereby confusing us further on its role. Adding mids is a way to solve blurring with the phoon... adding lows WILL blur it. Mids are always useful even with armor tanking, and the possibilities would be limitless. Fitting disruptor and scram would be nice, tracking computer, ECCM/sensor booster, and even mwd + ab fits to close and then orbit larger targets, etc in diff combos.

Posted - 2009.12.26 23:19:00 - [2602]

 

Originally by: Wrayeth

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Originally by: Roland Thorne

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You are right about shields, and it does bother me to be running shields when most gangs do use armor.

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I made a suggestion to fix this a while back. Basically, I suggested combining the remote armor rep and shield transfer modules into one. This one module would be unable to repair shields or armor on its own, but it would be able to load scripts to do so. Basically, one script would allow shield transfer, and the other would allow remote armor rep. The basic module itself would have very limited skill requirements, with the main skill requirements (remote shield transfer or remote armor rep) on the scripts. The effects of said skills would also only apply with the correct script loaded.

This would allowed combined shield/armor gangs and allow those with shield tanking skills to finally use them in a RR environment.

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Mmmm... I don't think this would solve much. Swapping scripts takes (in my experience) just a little too long to let you choose freely. I think it would make much more sense to reduce CPU usage of STs and then let it all balance out on its own.

It's more likely that the problem is that there are far more armour tanking battleships in curculation than shield tanking ones, and the armour tanking ones have possible configs better suited to RRing than the shield ones.

Posted - 2009.12.27 16:20:00 - [2604]

 

After using Minni Ammo after the change I have decided I like the Tier system they they have used. But there is still an issue. I think the issue is that Arties and Autos use the same Ammo. Either give a boost to Falloff or sepearte the Ammos and give Autos a boost to tracking and Falloff.

I think the big issue has been is that many want to be equal or better at the same ranges instead of working with postive and negs that seperate each from the other.

If I was to do Arties it would look like this. Range is the same, other races just out class Arties, just the way it is. But Arties Hit harder then any other race for their range and have decent tracking, ya they may be 50KM shorter then some races but they are Kings at the range they are at.

Auto's would have great much Greater Falloff Range and a Upgrade to tracking. The idea is that Auto Cannons spew out so many rounds, you are just going to be hit for the most part. But since their damage is based in how many rounds hit, their damage is only mid to just maybe decent with a chance for heavy random spike damage.

The idea is that Auto are part LOS and Part Buck Shot in effect, thier upgraded trackin repersents the fact that so many rounds are out there you are bound to take some damage. The fact that your dmage is in the mid range repersents the fact that while rounds are hitting, so many are missing to with the random chance that a ship just flys in the face of it and takes nasty spike damage. So consitant damage is just in the mid range for a chande of a nasty spike. But since you are relying upon throwing out gobs of ammo to hit your enemy, your Falloff range is just masive, puts you out farther theyn any other race with their Opt and Falloff combined.

Minies are supposed to be a fast striking race that pounds and kits some, this would help back that Idea while at the same time, well no matter what you do, you are never going to make a BS live up to that Idea which is why Minni Arties while shorter in range pound sooo Hard.

I think the Combat Philosophy should be looked at a bit more for each race to be honest and then work on it from there. The where's and why's a bit more thought out.

We all don't need to be equal or have a chance at the same ranges. I think Range, Damage and Racking between the races need some rethinking.

Posted - 2009.12.29 11:15:00 - [2606]

 

Since this thread refuses to die, I'll just go ahead and repeat myself until it does.

long range ammo: 6 base damage, +40% optimal, +5% tracking
artillery: falloff scaled by tier



and a 7/6/6 Tempest, please?

Posted - 2010.01.05 10:38:00 - [2608]

 

Originally by: Seriously Bored

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Originally by: Lucas Quaan

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Since this thread refuses to die, I'll just go ahead and repeat myself until it does.

long range ammo: 6 base damage, +40% optimal, +5% tracking
artillery: falloff scaled by tier



and a 7/6/6 Tempest, please?

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Amen.

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lol sure that wont be op at all... tempest is fine as it is

Posted - 2010.01.06 11:35:00 - [2610]

 

Originally by: Lucas Quaan

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Since this thread refuses to die, I'll just go ahead and repeat myself until it does.

long range ammo: 6 base damage, +40% optimal, +5% tracking
artillery: falloff scaled by tier

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ok

Originally by: Lucas Quaan

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and a 7/6/6 Tempest, please?

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please no