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Lijhal
Posted - 2009.09.16 08:53:00 - [241]
 

i wish we had such collision graphics on ships as well like in the first picture

/dream

btw, nice blog!

Soleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.09.16 08:54:00 - [242]
 

Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 16/09/2009 08:58:12

So the question is how much DPS should a supercarrier tank?

Is there any question that supercaps should tank more than dreads? Given the cost, the alliance-wide effort they take, the downfalls of not being able to dock, etc?

Dreads tank 12,000-20,000 sustained dps, and pop every few minutes in a fleet fight. My nyx with faction/officer gear tanks 5,000 dps. The average dread fleet I was around numbered 40 dreads. Add in a hundred sub cap ships pumping out a lot of damage. The current tanking from moms are completely inadequate. Adding in even a million armor points doesn't do anything but buy us an extra 2 minutes (if that) if we can't do anything to sustain any type of dps. Buffer tanks won't make us survivable on the battlefield. We must see an increase in our repping abilities.

And a question that hasn't been asked much....what are the weapon ranges/orbit range for the bombers?

Thanks for keeping up with this thread :)

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.16 08:58:00 - [243]
 

le sigh

I write half a post on capitals go to lectures (11 hours before I get back) finish last couple paragraphs and post, only to find out someone at ccp has managed ninja in a devblog on the exact same subject while I was away. Confused

Oh well I guess I'll take this as a sign I'm thinking about the right things, now lets start with what I see in this blog.

Super-moms seem to be taking the role of dreads and from some rough guesses I'm thinking they'll do slightly less dps than a single dread. Effecitively they'll be more flexible more maneuvarable dreads... sorta sounds like minmatar except making them cost a hell of a lot more.

Titans are still gonna cause problems, any large corp will just use titans to crush their enemy who will stand jack all chance to fight back. Imagine having carriers camping your stations/poses etc and the moment you bring any bs fleet or capital fleet a 20 man titan fleet jumps in and wastes you before you get a chance and you don't have near enough dps to even dent them while they vaporise you easily. Better than current system but still not quite there. you mentioned more potential DDD's in the future.... wanna hear more on that.

Moros: while I agree that this nerf was kinda hard it stopped station camping with the moros which is getting quite rediculous. As for those who say gallente is in dire need of a nerf; minmatar are next in line and I will duct tape shut every orofice of anyone who disagrees with this. feel free to stand behind us though.



Well now I'll go on to what my idea wher for capitals

Sub system targeting



or tl;dr... ok turns out my tl;dr needs a tl;dr Confused

any subcapital ship can target the subsystems of capital ships (such as cap system, drone control, armour, shield, jump drive). only sub capitals can target these (also means only sub capitals can repair these).

now that they are nerfed and vulnerable to small gangs give them some nice boosts such as double hp increase cap by 50% boost damage etc. Try and make these boosts focused at bringing the ships back onto the battlefield so not only do subcaps wanna help the caps but caps wanna help the subcaps.

carrier example with 100% OP brokenness: let drone skills (drone interface etc.) effect drones that are on same grid (makes u bring your carrier to the field). Can only control 5 drones, rest must be assigned. Boost to DCU, fighter type sentries.

CCP Abathur


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.16 09:09:00 - [244]
 

First, a word on Titans from our Senior Producer.

Now...

Originally by: Darth Sith
Now we are introducing a superweapon that can inflict capital killing damage on a target. What is to stop the same thing where someone comes in with 10+ titans, lock a tower , all fire their siege weapons and reinforce it in 1 shot. The tower would be reinforced and the titans gone before someone sees the first mail from the tower. Is this (highly probable I might add) scenerio being addressed in the balance testing?


Yes. We will be looking at everything from the damage the weapons actually do to how we might adjust that against certain targets.

Originally by: Gramtar
What is the role of the dread in Dominion? I ask this because, like the last time POS and sov was revamped, one of the goals I'm hearing about is to "make small gangs relevant". As we know, unless CCP was referring to afk station services shooting for 12 hours, that goal was never realized. For me, when I hear that same goal echoed, I think - if a small gang can take or disrupt sovereignty, what role does the Dread still have?


A small gang will not be able to 'disrupt sovereignty', but they will be able to cause an AFK Empire more headaches than previously. Guerrilla warfare, raids, things like that. When it comes time to actually take the space, you will still need Dreads to take out heavily defended installations or destroy hardened infrastructure.

Originally by: Lord Timelord
Stuff about Moros / blasters


We're actually looking at all of the 'short range' XL weaponry, not just the blasters on the Moros.

Originally by: Edmund Khan
But please, make supercapitals imune to normal interdictor bubbles. There is no way you can control or fight those from a supercapital - you're death meat. We have HIC with focused scripts now, to hold down supercaps. And mobile anchored bubbles. Thats enough and supercaps can fight those and maybe have a chance of getting away. And a little effort should be required to hold down supercaps, not only a 20 milion frigate bubble spam.


Just because you spend XX billions / millions on a ship does not mean that it should automatically be able to defeat every other ship it comes across. Hictors are cruiser sized ships that your support fleet should be dealing with. Likewise, for all their 'power', Interdictors are little more than flying coffins in most fleet fights. If you are on grid without proper support, then you probably didn't want that Titan anyway.

Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda
could there be possibilities in upgrading the fighter bays of regular carriers to accommodate bombers? I imagine they'd work a lot like damage modifiers on other vessels. What you trade in tank or utility you gain in gank.


For current Carriers, there's no plans for that at this time. However, in a perfect world all capital ships would be modular like the Strategic Cruisers and you would be able to customize things much more. I'd much rather see us do something like this than try to add to current Carrier's plethora of available options. Smile

Originally by: Typhado3
Sub System Targeting


This is something we've brought up at FanFest a couple times in the past and one of those ideas that keeps coming up. We want to eventually do this, not just for capital ships, but for everything. There's no solid plans for it at this time, but the concept isn't going away.


LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2009.09.16 09:09:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Mecinia Lua


Mothership name change. Well honestly why were they called motherships to begin with. They are tier 3 tech 1 carriers. We don't call the Rupture a Heavy Cruiser, Celestis a Support Cruiser or the Caracal a Strike Cruiser, so I never really understood the need for a separate name for the same class of ships. Supercarrier is probably a more proper name given their current and expected future operations.


People call cruisers like the Osprey for mining cruisers. There's also mining frigates like the Bantam. There's the probing frigates like the Magnate.

I know that people call them like that. The samples you present might not be used. But that doesn't mean people don't sub-class classes.

Wasp O'Ryan
Gallente
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.16 09:12:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Viper ShizzIe
How massive will the HP boost be for titans?

Is there anything else being added to make "supercarriers" more attractive? Jump range could really be looked at, will they retain the ECM burst module? Will fighter bombers be for MS only? Will they receive the same HP boost as titans? Will they get any added supercarrier only modules? Capital warp disruptors that work the same as a HIC focused point would be a great addition. Will they be worthwhile to trap an alt/main in now?

Do you think people will use titans in combat moreso now that they're able to only destroy one ship every five minutes, and in doing so be vulnerable for long enough that just about any competent (and even some that blatantly aren't) HIC/DIC pilot can get ontop of them without the titans having a way to defend themselves against smaller ships? Saying "bring a bigger fleet" really isn't an answer to this. Titans should have support, but I really don't expect many people to use them unless the ROF is substantially increased or you can fit multiple DD modules. The reward for the risk isn't there, especially with the immobility for 30 seconds being a death sentence.

Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.09.16 09:15:00 - [247]
 

Edited by: Virtuozzo on 16/09/2009 09:15:32
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Good morning, thread.


Good morning Very Happy Time for lunch in a bit Very Happy

These doomsday changes are puzzling. Area effect DD's have already balanced themselves out with other factors like cost, risk, numbers, methods, countermethods, etc. It is almost as if the last year of evolution on grid of pew pew was missed. Not everyone has avoided the challenges, there is an increasing number of organisations in game which actively uses brains and assets to deal with the challenges, and increasingly well.

The fundamental problem, was never the doomsday, but the combination of evading risk and the player driven excess.

To fix it, a few simple changes were needed:

  1. Take out the nano-no-risk factor.
    Done, 30 second timer locked on grid after firing takes care of that, forcing people to once again engage using concerted fleet support.

  2. Take out the invulnerability of afk production.
    Done, the sovereignty changes ending the invulnerability of POS will take out a lot of the AFK element, force people to be cautious once more, and quite possibly make clubbing baby seals a strategic option again.

  3. Make it counterproductive for players to pile up doomsdays without penalty or pain.



This last point is ... troublesome. I agree. But it would have been far more productive to use the storylines, rather then trying to reinvent a wheel which only needed to have two of its spikes taken out.

Effectively speaking, you're turning Titans into superdreadnaughts (spellingk! Very Happy), in an age where this simply cannot compete with scaling of skilled manpower, assets and isk. Taking into account human nature, you are opening the door to one of two options, depending on how much ISK people have:

  1. Mothership excess (seriously man, "supercarriers"? Very Happy Call it "Assault Carriers or something, if one fine day we will get real super carriers worthy of the name Mothership.

  2. Titan excess. If the targeted weapon works on control towers and claim/disruption structures, my god Cool Sweetness.



Or worse, a precedent of utter waste on a new and extreme scale, perfectly within CCP's rights & roles, but a potential long term lemon effect.

"Solving" the excess, would have been very simple. In contrast to these changes you do not need to revamp matters so that people will want to field more, on the contrary, you want to make people use big toys in a smart and unique manner instead of applying sheep mentality to it.
Imagine the new superweapon works on starbases and the new claim / disruption structures. Guess what'll happen :P

I would have expected simple and subtle changes in the light of demonstrated player insanity, that built upon on the fundamentals of player driven excess, without trying to change manners in ways that turn it either into obsolete junk or something which makes people push for more of the same.

I like the idea of a targeted superweapon, especially in light of the warp timer and the sov (jammer) changes, but as I said, I fear it will be counterproductive in one of a few possible ways.

Dig up the old storylines, and see how having multiple titans around moons or planets or gates is a really bad thing. In contrast to any other shiptype titans have a precedent for hard caps / limitations.

Simply limiting the number of ships active at the same time on the same grid within a given timeframe would have solved excess in a stupidly simple manner ("she's broken her back Bill, she'll never jump again").
Combined with the changes to jammers and sovereignty, this would have shot the excess tendency in the face. Err, foot.

At that point, any complimentary changes would be added bonuses. Like scripting for the doomsday to work as either an area effect or a targeted weapon, or a Triage mobility option, the potential for providing more strategic use for a shiptype of this magnitude is staggering.

The Kan
Gallente
The Circle
SOLAR WING
Posted - 2009.09.16 09:22:00 - [248]
 

Edited by: The Kan on 16/09/2009 09:33:15
Originally by: CCP Abathur

Originally by: Battle Tested
As it stands right now capital armor reps and capital shield boosters hardly have any affect on a supercap....Shouldnt "supercarriers" and titans at least get 100% repair bonus to these modules? fitting cap rep mods on supercaps is like fitting small reppers on a battleship (basically useless)


We've had a lot of back and forth on this one and it's not completely out the window. However, the question is, aside from just boosting the repair rate or creating new ones, just how much DPS should a supercap be able to solo tank? This is a very subjective and situational argument because one thing we do not want to see is Supercarriers and Titans able to do just dominate a battlefield on their own. Ships such as these should require teamwork and the support of other classes to be utilized to their full potential.



Even today, if you sport a single rep mothership with triage, it will give you +100% rep bonus and -50% cycle time per cycle, it's not broke.

Yes it will be able to tank more, but it's not invencible. it cannot tank more than 4 dreads or a dozen BS's.
Any small sized corp can field a dozen of BS's.

If you sport dual rep in triage, then you cripple your tank because your cap will dry up. you need to swap tank for cap recharging.

Adding a +100% rep bonus to motherships (yes motherships) it's not broken or overpowered.

Also, removing the triage is bad idea, removes OPTIONS from the ship. In your previous blog you speak of options. you want to give more and more options (decisions) to the players, (emergence is neat right?) but you removing that.

So what? if i want nothing but remote reps and local reps and triage on my mothership? no tank, mad cap recharge? How about clone vat? maybe it's not used often, but fixing the clone vat would be a better choice instead of less emergence ?

Same goes for the warfare links. even less emergence taking it away.
In order to fit those warfare links, you have to cut down on smartbombs or/and neut's or/and remote reps or/and ecm or/and cloak or/and ...
see the point? emergence is taken out.

Addng specialized drone and fighter bays is a good idea. I hate all those drones in a big mess in the bay itself.

Now for sugestions:

- buffer tanks is good in the perspective you want to put this ships in: Fleet oriented, team work. not solo pwnmobiles.
However, they also need survivability, thus, they need to be able to survive solo to a certain point. too mutch HP and little rep by itself is bad idea. the extra bonus to rep or new capital armor (shield) modules for supercaps would allow you to ballance this 2 factors together. Also emergence.

- I understand that supercaps are never ment to be cost effective, and i agree. Also, because someone is flying a 15b+ ship dont mean automatically that he's invincible, but, should give the pilot a edge over the others. that usually is more survivability. that's why people buy officer mods and faction ships. to get this edge over the next guy.

plz consider this.

PS: im still extremely f*** off

huxorator
Intergalactic Serenity
Ev0ke
Posted - 2009.09.16 09:32:00 - [249]
 

LEAVE!MY!MOROS!ALONE!

*sigh*

Gallente should be renamed to Sublente. You can do everything others can do, but worse.

Corinae
Gallente
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.09.16 09:38:00 - [250]
 

Well, as erebus pilot this is my hopinion..

GOOD:
1) The idea of the big bad-ass lazor is cool, i can live without DDD, the bridge job of the titan is more important
2) One-volley on station hugging carrier is lovely, i like it
3) HP increase is always welcome, my erebus was always fitted for be a 15 million effective hp flying pos YARRRR!!

BAD:
1) What happen if my uber lazor of doom DO NOT kill the enemy capital in one volley? the effectivness of the titan go to hell or so, the cool of it is avoiding the remote rep of enemy carriers for example, click, boom, if it does not die is all useless.
2) What happen if multiple titan show up and blow up other people 100m worth titans just because they have more titans and can do it? this is even more reducing the will to use super-capitals, the idea of exploding in 1 volley from 2-3-4 titans is too much to use them against multiple titan holding alliances.
3) Whatever HP increase we speak about, we are no more using a ship that can wipe entire enemy fleets and "worth" the risk considering the tackling chance are not so high, we speak about sitting in a grid where everything could happen for long time.
4) 5/10 minutes cooldown is too much, i repeat, want US to use titan in grid? firing and sitting still 5 minutes or doing crap dps with guns removing the ability to defend using Smartbombs and neutralizers is not a great idea.
5) We still have the same ship, same cost, we loose the "grid wiping" ability and we still not dock and jump very short.

These are my proposal for making people actually bring titans in fleet fights:

1) The Super lazor should directly SET 0 HITPOINTS on whatever Sub-Capital and Capital he fire, whatever is the fitting, whatever are the effective hp, one volley SHOULD be SURE 100% whatever they fit.
2) The Super lazor should NOT be possible to be used on other Super capitals, find a stupid silly reason for the roleplay on it but do it please, in this way we just one-volley anything but we can't royally **** up with multiple titan removing assetts worth 100b in 1 second.
3)Considering that now we have a weapon that one-volley without tracking issue whatever he shoot AND we don't risk stupid mutually destruction, the idea of having a titan in grid require one thing: shoot more often.

My idea for the "ROF" of the uber lazor:
1) Don't bind it to minutes, bind it to CAP, give this weapon a very big cap use, like 50% or 75% of the total cap, you can fire 1 or 2 times from full cap, then you must recharge with a rof of like 30 seconds to 1 minute or so, that without any cap recharge mod would take lot of time to re-fire
2) Pilots will NEED to decide how to fit, they can decide to fit more tank, faster lock, more cap recharge, it would allow to have titans actually DECIDE how to fit for the purpose they want to achieve.
3) Big organized fleet will be able to USE the cap transfer of carriers for "keeping up" with the HUGE cap need of their super-weapon ships, in this way titans will be the ARMED arms of carriers!, carriers repair the titan, give him cap for shooting the big bad-ass weapon and the opposite fleet do the same, without the risk of having the titan beign one-vollyed, while carriers risk that faith on both side.
4) If a titan want to play alone without cap transfer from carriers he will NEED to fit cap recharge, reducing total tank and other mid-low slots useful stuff.
5) The weapon should be like actual DDD, fire then after 15 seconds damage arrive, this will still require tackling on enemies and allow non-sieged pilots to escape.

I would say that this changes are pretty good scalable, increase on total TITAN number is binded to increase of CAP givers ship, no-one would be so mad to fit 100% cap recharge on a ship that would melt under fire in no-time if not tanked properly with buffer hp and even with crazy number of carriers giving cap the ROF of 30 sec / 1 min guarantee that no-one can re-fire too often.

wallenbergaren
Posted - 2009.09.16 09:38:00 - [251]
 

Edited by: wallenbergaren on 16/09/2009 09:43:48
I don't think reducing the cycle time of Triage to 5 minutes is enough of a boost.

This is the current cycle of non-balance:

Carriers are capital ships
They're good at supporting sub-capital fleets against other sub-capital fleets
Because they're capitals people will deploy other capitals to kill them
Carriers fail horribly against other capitals

Basically, you want to bring them to a large sub-cap fight, but by doing so you only escalate the fight to a capital fight, at which point the carriers are toast. Damned if you do, damned if you don't

Carriers in Triage mode need a bonus to tanking ability versus other capitals

If they got this then the solution to carriers wouldn't be the boring one of 'lets bring even BIGGER ships', and that boring solution is what's bad about capitals.


In my opinion the balance should be:

Dreads kill POSes and Super-Caps
Super-Caps kill Caps
Carriers support Super-Caps and Sub-Caps


If a Carrier in Triage tanks equally good against both damage from Capitals and Sub-Capitals there's no way you could ever balance it. Either it will be ridiculously overpowered versus sub-caps, or it will be ridiculously underpowered versus Caps.

John Grimm
Amarr
Rendili StarDrive Yards
Posted - 2009.09.16 09:45:00 - [252]
 

Excellent Blog.

Mother-ships => Super Carriers NOT COOL!
How about Carriers => Escort Carriers and
Mother-ships => Fleet Carriers.

Now that will be cool!

Tnks for this new Dominion blog, this shapes up to be a great expansion.

Hull Blaster
Gallente
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Cult of War
Posted - 2009.09.16 09:47:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: Mara Intala
*Supercarriers are going to get new teeth in the form of the deadly new Fighter Bombers they can launch. Fighter Bombers have exactly one purpose: to destroy capital ships and look very cool while doing so*

Ok this looks really cool. A+ on the sweet look of the Gallente bomber. But my issue here is limiting them to S'carriers alone.

Iím not suggesting let normal carriers be able to put out a max flight of 15 of them like a maxed skilled carrier pilot can do with fighters (only if they fill there highs with DCUs) but from what I have read they will require being on the front line to use.


With the current cost of MOMs(14b+) I just cant see anyone using them on the front line, not when they can just pos hug and sent 20+ fighters out among there fleet.

Here is what Iím thinking. Since carriers are smaller they donít have the Best hangers and control units. So the new Bombers would take 3x the space and bandwidth of normal fighters to field. So a thanny would only be able to use 5 of them (375 BW) (75000 m3 in current drone bay) so it would make the pilot THINK about what he wanted to do. If the pilot took a full flight of bombers (5), He wouldnít be able to carry many fighters or other drones so it wouldnít be OP compared to Sícarriers which would have normal requirements for bombers (25 BW/5000 m3) cause in my mind. A ship like the Nyx has the most advanced, up to date equipment and software there is.

I just donít want to see such an awesome new drone model wither away in dust in a mom drone bay sitting at a pos cause they are to expensive to risk on the front line.

Of course the bombers will still require a mom to be used to there fullest. But to be able to use them in carriers will not only make the carrier pilots happy. But the ppl who will be building them happy to. (More need to replace them as they will get used, and lost more)



I completely agree with this, pretty much the same kind of suggestion I was flooding my corp chat with last nightRolling Eyes. The fact that the "Supercarriers" will be toasted within minutes because of multiple titans arriving I can't help but think in the current form they will just gather dust on a Nyx's hanger deck Crying or Very sad.

iudex
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:00:00 - [254]
 

Quote:
Dreads will remain unchanged with one small exception - the Moros will only receive its drone damage bonus if it is in siege mode.

I appreciate the MS buff, but the Moros nerf is really upsetting.
Trained Gallente BS 5, heavy drones 5 and now 6 days from Gallente dread 5 for the sole purpose to use the Moros with it's drones in unsieged mode. What a waste of skilltime Sad


SAVE THE MOROS, SAVE THE WORLD !!!

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:20:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
Edited by: Jordan Musgrat on 16/09/2009 03:14:06
DC has some good points for once, but regardless, the problem here is that you just turned titans into the new black ops. I doubt you know how effective black ops are, but titans are to carriers what black ops are to ratters. You gather up 5 titans, start spreading cyno recons out, wait till you can get a few carriers to undock and aggro your recon to defend their system, and bam, instant cyno in, 5 carriers instapopped.

You definitely just changed the titan into a big gank dreadnought. That's not the direction you were looking for.

Do not **** up titans and tell us "ya but we'll fix them later," that's like messing with ECM and making us wait a year for it to be fixed, or messing with the Arazu/Pilgrim and then never really giving them their role back. Titans need some sort of area effect, otherwise instead of nerfing their role, you change it.

You should know by now, that completely revamping a shipclass is not usually the best way to nerf it. If you need ideas, ask, please. Also Motherships need something more than what they have, or what you're giving them. I'm not sure what that should be, maybe invulnerability to focused hicktor points? I can see someone bubbling a mothership from 15km away, but not someone sitting with a small cap injector, an afterburner, and a little local tank, and keeping the second most powerful ship in the entire game sitting like a duck as long as it likes from 30km away. Telling Mothership pilots that they should be fitting neuts is not the answer, that's like telling Titans they should be filling their highs with smartbombs, which is not what you want.

edit: Also if the fighter bombers are to have any chance, try giving them a 15km orbit range, and a 1500 m/s speed, launching their torps from there. That's about the only way you'll keep them from being ineffective and eventually obsolete, as people will simply bunch up carriers with smarties and sit there protecting their dreads. Even more range might be good tbh.


+1

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:24:00 - [256]
 

can someone post what the cost of a supercarrier is w/o the clone vat bays? i'd do it myself but im at work on my phone . . . as for the moros, i kinda see what is being done, basically the moros' drones get the bonus from the siege mod too, i get it, but now it seems that the moros only has 1.5 bonuses . . . can we get a 10% bonus to falloff of XL railguns or something to make XL blasters more viable because as it stands, i have NEVER seen a moros use one, or even a setup that had them . . . how many per day even sell in jita?

Mistress Loki
Godless Horizon.
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:24:00 - [257]
 

The Titan one shot kill cap thing sounds really neat

But unless it gets a good ROF I don't see the massive advantage of fielding one

Should be made a Capacitor based weapon. Capacitor*Locking time = ROF perhaps

(Will give a use to the Carriers who fit Cap Transfer Arrays no? As well as support the idea that they're used in Fleets)

If the Avatars Bonus's mess with that Idea then just re roll its Bonies & Problem solved

Loki


Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:28:00 - [258]
 

Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 16/09/2009 11:21:10
Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 16/09/2009 11:19:39
Originally by: iudex
Quote:
Dreads will remain unchanged with one small exception - the Moros will only receive its drone damage bonus if it is in siege mode.

I appreciate the MS buff, but the Moros nerf is really upsetting.
Trained Gallente BS 5, heavy drones 5 and now 6 days from Gallente dread 5 for the sole purpose to use the Moros with it's drones in unsieged mode. What a waste of skilltime Sad


SAVE THE MOROS, SAVE THE WORLD !!!



Yes.
8 months training for nothing. Thx CCP.
Put to siege and get drone bonuses ? What a LOL.
End of POS warfare in 0.0 because changed sov rules and use dreads ? Who will and why ? Use drones in sniper fleet ? Muahahahaha
Use the drones on capital ? LOL again just 1000dps.
Drone users sux again. No implants for drones, no rig for drones, no overheat for drones, no damage module for drones, no t2 drone modules.
Maybe 1-2 months and coming new era: "no drones bonuses to gallentes" Bravo CCP nice idea again, like the other bullsh*ts with the new developer team.
Oh yeah and othe thing they just creating now the Titan jump portal "building". Titan will the bigest ISK sink in the Eve world. Years training, +100 bill cost, and the pilots will get an unusable jump portal building. No one will fight with a titan which "i will shot my gun one just pls wait waiting more 5 minutes" ? LOL. Idiotism.

And other thing CSM for nothing: http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Drone_improvements

nothing happend after 1 years, but CCP listen to CSM. Shocked

They just nerfing always the gallentes and minmatars.

WTS Gallente Dread pilot and afull fitted moros for 1 ISK

Wild Predator
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:31:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: iudex
Quote:
Dreads will remain unchanged with one small exception - the Moros will only receive its drone damage bonus if it is in siege mode.

I appreciate the MS buff, but the Moros nerf is really upsetting.
Trained Gallente BS 5, heavy drones 5 and now 6 days from Gallente dread 5 for the sole purpose to use the Moros with it's drones in unsieged mode. What a waste of skilltime Sad


SAVE THE MOROS, SAVE THE WORLD !!!



Yes.
8 months training for nothing. Thx CCP.
Put to siege and get drone bonuses ? What a LOL.
End of POS warfare in 0.0 because changed sov rules. Use drones in sniper fleet ? Muahahahaha
Use the drones on capital ? LOL again just 1000dps.
Drone users sux again. No implants for drones, no rig for drones, no overheat for drones, no damage module for drones. Bravo CCP nice idea again, like the other bullsh*ts with the new developer team.

At least you're not a phoenix pilot. Only dread that could be speed tanked by super caps.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:40:00 - [260]
 

"Dreads will remain unchanged with one small exception - the Moros will only receive its drone damage bonus if it is in siege mode."

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Droog 1
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:42:00 - [261]
 

R.I.P. Moros.

Aylara
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:46:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 16/09/2009 00:46:31
Titans as super dreads and Motherships as super carriers is utterly, mind-numbingly boring. It takes what we can already do, and puts another spin on it - where the main difference is a "bigger hull" construction tax. What is the point of Dominion if you curb past ambitions and settle for less, without actually addressing where you went wrong?

Supercapitals didn't come out right for three reasons:

  • kept relying on isk/skillpoints as a deterrent to ownership, which obviously does not work in the long run

  • didn't devote enough coding resources to use unique mechanics, and instead recycled crap from the usual ship lineup

  • underestimated how easily players can vaporize any amount of HP


Supercapitals should:

  • NOT BE SHIPS, OR USE ANY OF THEIR MECHANICS GODDAMNIT

  • be fully persistent and not go "poof" when someone decides they don't feel like defending it that day

  • use reinforced/anchoring modes over passive/active tanking for defense

  • require upkeep for operations just like starbases, deterring ownership for the sake of ownership through cost AND logistics

  • require actual teamwork and logistics in their construction, key word: work

  • require actual resources to repair and corporate roles in control

  • require more than the push of a button to cyno out

  • provide limited services/interactivity to allies with or without an active pilot at the helm

  • not have 'normal ship' modules or slots; retrofits involving POS + time + money that leave them vulnerable


Titans should:

  • automatically be reconsidered for balancing if more than a handful exist in the entire game

  • have an even more powerful Doomsday, but one that does damage over time, costs major resources and leaves tactical after-effects on grid/system to screw with both sides

  • not portal fleets, but carry them instead

  • provide limited manufacturing capability

  • scare the crap out of BOTH SIDES' FCs by preventing anything from escaping

  • eat dreadnaughts for breakfast


Motherships should:

  • be a viable offensive mobile base for medium-large sized corporations

  • rely on signature masking, scanner spoofing and environments to "hide" from hostiles

  • provide full clone services, to give fallen allies a chance to rejoin the fleet battle before its over

  • provide ammo, charge, drone construction capability


All capitals should:

  • NOT HAVE ANY INSURANCE, BASIC OR OTHERWISE FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFGLGHRLGHLNRNGHGHGHHGLRRR

  • require jumpdrive spooling that isn't so immediate/instant

  • have racial differences in capital stats (fuel cost, jump range, fighter bay, etc) and not just Tech 1


Alright I'm losing steam and I can't even remember half the stuff I wrote here ages ago (includes Dreadnaughts/Carriers). But the point is..

The quality of capital warfare is directly proportional to the amount of new mechanics and coding resources you throw at them, even if the whole thing is unbalanced and buggy as hell to start with.



DC outlined something that many people where thinking about what supercapitals should be (well very close to what he said)!

PS: you could also add an anchorable deep space explorer class ship, which will make all those WH explorers very happy!

Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:57:00 - [263]
 

While you're at it take another look at drone scoop range or at least give sentry drones a little engine or something. You still routinely can't scoop them after siege due to beyond 2500 deploy range or even simple bumping.

CONVlCTED
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:06:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: John Grimm
Excellent Blog.

Mother-ships => Super Carriers NOT COOL!
How about Carriers => Escort Carriers and
Mother-ships => Fleet Carriers.



yes please!!!!Exclamation

Insane Nutmunch
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:08:00 - [265]
 

I quite like these changes, but they have to be looked at in respect to the whole "Dominion" package.

Titans should, over a period of time, become less prevalent. Titans will die and with the new Sovereignty changes there will be more risk associated with building them.

If CCP really wants to make the titans a more exclusive ship they should make the super cap assembly arrays drop something useful to encourage attackers.

The demise of the DDD will not "Stop the blob" in fact it will lead to bigger blobs of smaller ships. All those DDD or even double DDD capable command and battle ships can now have some of their tanks removed and replaced by damage mods.

When Titan ownership has fallen to a respectable level, then then uberness can be returned.

"Super-moms" are going to spend most of their time orbiting POS's just outside shield range with fighter-bombers assigned to interceptors. I'm actually quite looking forward to this Twisted Evil

My main concern over the Dominion patch as a whole, is that this patch will change a hell of a lot and there still seems to be so much "in the air". I will be setting long skills on all accounts running and making sure my more expensive assets are safe.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:14:00 - [266]
 

Edited by: Gnulpie on 16/09/2009 11:15:18
First: Great to see that CCP and the devs are talking, listening to feedback and ask for suggestions EARLY in the design. Very good. Not only here in this thread but in the other important threads also. Good, thanks :-)


One shot - one kill titan. I absolutely dislike that idea the more I think about it. So far it was that you ALWAYS had some counter against a weapon. Always.

It NEVER happened that whatever you did, you were completely defenceless and had 0% chance.

This is a major paradigm change in the Eve world and I really dislike it. A ship designed to give the opponent zero chance.... urgs Rolling Eyes Really, think about that.


Doomsday were only really bad with insta-warp away and in cyno-jammed systems. But as I understand, most of the now cyno-jammed systems will be un-jammed after Dominion. So where is the big problem then?


Oh and "supercarrier"? Hmpf, bad name. You asked for suggestions? Heavy assault carrier

Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:20:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: CCP Abathur

We're well aware of the differences. The issue is that the Moros was doing an average of three times the out of siege damage over the other dreads. A max skilled Moros does over 1100 DPS with 5x Ogre II's and over 900 DPS with 5x Bouncer II's. This is Carrier level damage from regular drones. A Dread's primary damage should come from its guns and the drone bonus should be just that, a bonus, not a requirement to achieve some sort of parity with other dreads.

As I said at the start, we have time and are paying attention. We'll be looking at this in the coming weeks and will work to make sure the Moros isn't relegated to the bottom of the class. Smile



This is true. But this is nothing you didn't know when making this dread. And I could dig out a thread from like 2 years ago that I made to complain exactly about that ("Moros - the swiss army knife of Eve"), yet you didn't change anything for years.

People trusted you. They trusted in persistence of certain ship classes. And they specialised on them. You breach their trust. I'd understand if it were a new ship, you'd see that something is wrong and change it a few weeks after release. But the Moros is old. It exists for years. And it was fine, hardly anyone complained. Many people trained for it because of it's performance against small ships, everyone got used to it. Again you break something that was fine and frustrate all that people who trusted in the persistence of this game for no real reason.

Aionstar
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:20:00 - [268]
 

Quote:
Gallente Dreadnought Skill Bonus:

5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret damage
50% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per skill level IN SIEGE MODE
ок, ок...
Quote:
Minmatar Dreadnought Skill Bonus:

7.5% bonus to Capital Projectile damage per level
7.5% bonus to Capital Projectile rate of fire per level IN SIEGE MODE =)
Quote:
Caldari Dreadnought Skill Bonus:

5% bonus to kinetic missile damage
5% bonus to Capital Launcher rate of fire per skill level IN SIEGE MODE =)
Quote:
Amarr Dreadnought Skill Bonus:

10% reduction in Capital Energy Turret capacitor use
5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret rate of fire per skill level IN SIEGE MODELaughing

now all fair Evil or Very Mad

Mia Zheng
Caldari
Frozen Forge
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:23:00 - [269]
 

ion cannons!

Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:26:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: Aionstar
Quote:
Gallente Dreadnought Skill Bonus:

5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret damage
50% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per skill level IN SIEGE MODE
ок, ок...
Quote:
Minmatar Dreadnought Skill Bonus:

7.5% bonus to Capital Projectile damage per level
7.5% bonus to Capital Projectile rate of fire per level IN SIEGE MODE =)
Quote:
Caldari Dreadnought Skill Bonus:

5% bonus to kinetic missile damage
5% bonus to Capital Launcher rate of fire per skill level IN SIEGE MODE =)
Quote:
Amarr Dreadnought Skill Bonus:

10% reduction in Capital Energy Turret capacitor use
5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret rate of fire per skill level IN SIEGE MODELaughing

now all fair Evil or Very Mad



Oh yes this would be logic. But where is the logic in CCP changes ? Nowhere.


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