Posted - 2009.09.25 18:15:00 - [751]

 

Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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Well, true... I was more looking at the Fleet Pest there. The upcoming projectile weapon buffs will hopefully boost the normal Pest to "kick ass" levels, too.

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Not to poop on the AWESOME list of changes CCP Ytterbium has above, but the strength of Minny BSs relative to each other stays the same with any projectile fix. So the base tempest would still be subpar compared to the others.

But!! It could probably be useful with all the changes, and may be fielded more often than it is currently simply because it's cheaper than the Maelstrom, and could snipe almost as well.

Ideally, I would have liked to see the Fleet Pest as an 8/6/6 layout, with 7/0 turrets/launchers. But given all the other awesome things in the hopper, if that's asking for too much, I can live with what's coming.

Posted - 2009.09.25 18:40:00 - [753]

 

Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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Well, the Pest is far from LOL even now (on Tranq), I've seen what our guys can do with the thing, it's a very good ship for small-gang (RR) lowsec warfare (those utility slots are golden). That said, it needs tons of skills and even with maxed skills it's not really in the "awesome" department. With buffed projectiles, I suspect it will be more or less on par with the other good battleships.

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Hmm, I care to disagree. It's not exceptionally good at anything, at all. It works okay as an RR boat, but the phoon is better. The only thing it has a claim to fame for is killing support with dual heavy neuts and ACs. You can make any battleship into a monster fitted and skilled correctly.

Quote:

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If we want to talk "bad battleships" after this, let's talk Hyperion.

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This may be the inner EFT warrior speaking, but I hear the shield buffer/complete gank hyp can be nasty. Also seen some comments that it's better in the "solo" department than the mega. Blasters could use some love, though.

Posted - 2009.09.25 19:58:00 - [755]

 

Originally by: Haffrage

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Right, I'll get straight to the point.

Frankly, I'm a bit unimpressed with the changes to navy ships overall in comparison to the Megathron Navy Issue and the Dominix Navy Issue. In terms of general appeal, both gallente navy ships are at the bottom of the list (with the amarr navy ships once again at the top ). Honestly the gallente navy's overall ship design just isn't up to par, and they seem to both be coming out with an unwarranted and clearly prejudicial gimping.

So, to resolve this issue I've made a few fixes to the ships and think most of the community will agree that these changes are for the best - all in the name of balance of course. With luck the right devs will agree and the changes will make it into the patch!
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/haffrage/navydomiimproved.jpg
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/haffrage/navythronimproved.jpg

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FAN****INGTASTIC!!!!

A+++++++

although I think I'd rather have the black paint, black ships is can be smexy! (yes smexy!)

Posted - 2009.09.25 21:53:00 - [757]

 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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Tempest Navy Issue:

We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general).

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Ytterbium, it would be great if you, Nozh, or someone could post exactly what CCP thinks the core problem is (much like like Abathur did with his excellent blog on why sov needed to be changed or Nozh did with the first half of his Projectile Balancing post).

Posted - 2009.09.25 22:45:00 - [759]

 

Splitweapon systems need more love.
They are far inferiour as ships that getting two boni to one weapon type.

btw. the fleet scythe has not enough CPU by far

Posted - 2009.09.26 01:50:00 - [761]

 

While I love all the effort CCP is making in this expansion and these ships in particular I think think there is still more work to be done.

Honestly, is there any single statistic that the proposed fleet tempest is better at than the macherial? I like the mach and think it is balanced fairly well against the other pirate BS bringing something different to the table, speed and agility. But since it shares the same layout with the fleet pest, while having all stats greater...well the mach flatout performs the new fleet pest.

Perhaps swap the meds and lows on either the pest or mach to offer a bit of variety to the lineups? A shield tanking Mach would even make sense with the Angel lore and LP store. I mean, the rats DO shield tank.

Posted - 2009.09.26 08:01:00 - [763]

 

New Typhoon is awesome. Wait and see time on the Tempest.

Thanks for the the Minmatar loving.

Posted - 2009.09.26 09:10:00 - [765]

 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

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I don't know that this will "fix" the Tempest itself, but the projectile changes in the other thread might. I 110% support the Phoon/Fleet Phoon changes. Wish the Fleet Pest was a shield tanker, but this will work fine. :)

Thanks for listening!

-Liang

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Projectile changes?

Posted - 2009.09.26 10:22:00 - [767]

 

Originally by: Roemy Schneider

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well faction versions do come with more HP, which does require a higher recharge time. just because they had the same as regular bs up until today doesnt make it ipso facto right.

however, this is indeed quite a high number. i can't say i'm a fan of this tanking method, hence i'm not too experienced but i believe 2 extenders usually come with such a fitting? that results in ~30% more HP on the gravy raven compared to its baby sister. i'd derive a recharge rate in the area of 3250s

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If this is how the devs wanted navy bs to work they should have set it to 3390 when they created them.

Currently the cnr is receiving a nerf to shield roughly 1000pg which I don't need but some other fits might require, 15 extra cpu (man i really needed that), and 25m3 more space in the drone cargo bay but no more bandwidth...

So now instead of carrying 5 mediums and 5 lights you will carry 5 mediums and 10 lights... Nothing really changed here

Adding 15 cpu and 1000pg with a little more drone space suggests ccp has a pretty exact fit and role they intend us to use which i think is bs. Unless they want to make the above changes and leave the versatility of the 2500s recharge rate.

Would anyone be upset if the CNR was left entirely alone for this patch? I think it was fine the way it was. I dont think there have been any posts in the past 26 pages where people saw the cnr changes and replied "well its about time...wow i cant wait to get one of these now that its been fixed and is worth using"

Those of us flying one like it for the way it is...not the way we wished ccp would make it. The other ships needed a boost...give them their boost. Stealth nerfing versatility isnt cool.

Posted - 2009.09.26 12:00:00 - [769]

 

Edited by: Linas IV on 26/09/2009 12:03:15

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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Further changes.

Typhoon:

• Slot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)

Tempest:

• Hitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)

Typhoon Fleet Issue:

• Slot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)

Tempest Fleet Issue:

• Slot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7)
• Hitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)

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Typhoon: Nice Change


Typhoon FI: Nice aswell, awesome Ship


Tempest: ....well.... At least something


Tempest FI: Better than the last Incarnation, but one question remains: What's the point?!?

The 7th Low is an improovement, but now its just a much much weaker Machariel!!!
(less agi, less Speed, less HP, Less dronebay and bandwith, Less Falloff, less turrets. wtf!?!?)

Why the heck should anyone fly it?!?



Ideas for a Final fix:

1. Shield Buffered Sniper:

Slot-Layout: 8/6/6 (as on TQ) 7 turrets (maybe even only 7 highs are enough)
Stats: 10k Shield HP, 9.3k Armor HP, PG as it is Now on Sisi

2. As it was on Sisi last week (8/5/6 7 turrets) but with A LOT more PG!!!
I want to fit a full rack of 1400s and MWD ONCE without an RCU.

=> Fixed Tempest FI

Posted - 2009.09.26 13:05:00 - [771]

 

Edited by: AccesiViale on 26/09/2009 13:13:53
Edited by: AccesiViale on 26/09/2009 13:06:03

Originally by: Gypsio III

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No, that extra CPU and PG is really useful on the CNR, while the change to shield recharge time is utterly inconsequential.

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Mind letting me know what you can do with that extra 15 cpu that you couldnt before?

Not exactly inconsequential if you have cnr pilots complaining that it invalidates a fit. And even IF you were right then change is without merit because if nobody will be affected and to fit passive for cnr was dumb then the change should not even have been considered... as it doesnt change anything. Either angle shows this change to be stupid.

Posted - 2009.09.26 14:47:00 - [773]

 

15 CPU would allow me to use a DC II where before I'd have to use an IFFA suitcase.

Posted - 2009.09.26 17:02:00 - [775]

 

Dont have time to read the 26 pages, so i apologise if it's been mentioned already in between the inane banter, but removing the speed boost on the Firetail might be worth reconsidering.

It being the fastest ship in game is the only reason a lot of people have it, myself included, so taking that away so it's a little better in combat might just make it even less popular.

Posted - 2009.09.27 05:07:00 - [777]

 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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Further changes.

Typhoon:

• Slot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)

Tempest:

• Hitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)

Typhoon Fleet Issue:

• Slot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)

Tempest Fleet Issue:

• Slot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7)
• Hitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)

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<3 CCP

----1 change i woudl like to see

fleet pest gets the damage bonus to projectiles up by 2.5% per level
or..............

drop 1 launchers for 2 turrets and make it the insane gun boat it shoudl be.
give it a fall off bonus.

Posted - 2009.09.27 10:10:00 - [779]

 

Nooooo....

Then it'd just be an Apocalypse-made-from-old-shopping-trolleys. Far to homogeneous.

Tempest should be (imho)
10% Damage /level
10% Falloff /level

Falloff bonus is useful for both AC's and Arty's.

Damage bonus coupled with Arty changes makes it King of the AlphaStrike for fleets while still being a bit fragile and lower DPS compared to a Maelstrom