| Author |
Topic |
Darius Brinn
Iberians |
Posted - 2009.08.26 09:03:00 - [ 1]
I mainly fly a Sentry Dominix for mission running, and I already have T2 sentries and Drone Interfacing V.
However, I have found that rails in my Domi speed my ISK/hour quite a bit, and as of lately I have been considering getting a Megathron, because I want a gunboat and I like it's design.
What would benefit me the most? Training Gallente BS to V, or getting to T2 Large rails now for both the Domi and the future Mega?
The thing is, I've read somewhere that T2 rails are only better than faction ones when you get to Large Rail Spec IV, and not by much.
I have my support skills at IV and Large Railguns at IV too.
What would you recommend and why? |
Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2009.08.26 09:12:00 - [ 2]
Well if you go for BS 5 then you can skip the Mega and go directly to a Kronos.
Unless you plan on running missions with T2 ammo you are better off with faction guns. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians |
Posted - 2009.08.26 11:48:00 - [ 3]
I definitely want BS V, as it's the only one I want to train.
Is it uncommon to use T2 guns and T2 ammo in missions? |
Yarinor
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance |
Posted - 2009.08.26 12:02:00 - [ 4]
Get the bs, and then t2 guns. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians |
Posted - 2009.08.26 12:28:00 - [ 5]
Okay.
Any reasons why it should be so? Something like "the damage bonus of BS V is superior to the difference between T2 guns and your T1 guns"?
I assume T2 guns are not THAT much of an effective difference? |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.08.26 12:38:00 - [ 6]
It depends... I know I am speculating here to his current skillset but if he has Large Hybrids 4 and GB4 then training to GB5 will not improve his turret DPS over training to Large Hybrid 5 (both are 5% for the Domi/Mega) however Large Hybrid Spec will give another easy 8%... Oh and a Kronos without T2 rails is a bit... well meh! I'd go for T2 Rails first as you can use them on the Domi whislt you train up GB5  |
Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative. |
Posted - 2009.08.26 13:33:00 - [ 7]
PvP: T2 guns then BS 5
PvE: BS 5 then T2 guns (you'll eventually want to train large hybrids 5, at which point you may as well get the spec skill) |
Warezmy Carr
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.08.26 13:57:00 - [ 8]
I would train for Large Railgun Specialization. It will give you more damage upgrades faster than training Gallente Battleship V. |
Foulque
SniggWaffe |
Posted - 2009.08.26 15:15:00 - [ 9]
 Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Unless you plan on running missions with T2 ammo you are better off with faction guns.
You're wrong. More damage from specced T2 than faction. The benefit of them is generally less cap use and easier fitting/skill requirements. Officer on the other hand do out damage T2. You also get the extra damage from large turret 5. That said, for a mission domi then yeah I would think you'd get more benefit from BS5, though both are nice and worth the train. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians |
Posted - 2009.08.26 15:18:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Malcanis
PvP: T2 guns then BS 5
PvE: BS 5 then T2 guns (you'll eventually want to train large hybrids 5, at which point you may as well get the spec skill)
Originally by: Warezmy Carr
I would train for Large Railgun Specialization. It will give you more damage upgrades faster than training Gallente Battleship V.
I definitely want both eventually, but both are longer-than-immediate skillplans and I'd like to know what gives me the best damage increase in the shortest time. Can anybody estimate the damage difference between T1 rails and T2 rails? For instance, T2 drones imply a 30-ish% damage increase. What would be the equivalence to T2 vs T2 rails? I think this might be useful for many a skillplan. And thanks again. |
Darthewok
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.08.26 16:26:00 - [ 11]
Hmm let's see (Courtesy of EFT warrioring)
Comparison of 1 x T1 best named and 1 x T2 large gun for a Megathron (which has damage bonuses)
Assumption: 3 damage mods and all level V skills
Missions Short Range T1 (10.29% difference)
425mm Railgun II (Antimatter L): 75
425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun (Antimatter L): 68
Missions Long Range T1 (10.71% difference)
425mm Railgun II (Iron L): 31
425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun (Iron L): 28
PVP Short Range Faction (8.86% difference)
425mm Railgun II (Caldari Navy Antimatter L): 86
425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun (Caldari Navy Antimatter L): 79
PVP Long Range Faction for T1, T2 ammo for T2 gun (51.52% difference)
425mm Railgun II (Spike L): 50
425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun (Caldari Navy Iron L): 33
Conclusion:
The big difference in T1 and T2 guns is in PVP long range applications where T2 can use spike and T1 cannot (A whopping 50% damage increase). Otherwise, the difference is not so great.
10% is still an advantage certainly though.
Mega damage bonus is 5% per level. so probably T2 guns still edges out BS V unless the math or assumptions is wrong somewhere.
interesting...
-DE |
Passageway
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.08.26 18:32:00 - [ 12]
also remember that with the mega you've got 5% bonus per level to tracking. |
Darthewok
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.08.27 01:26:00 - [ 13]
Good point. Better tracking = better hits and better actual damage I suppose.
tl;dr version -
For T1 or faction ammo/ missioning/ short range PVP: its a tossup between BS V giving you 5% damage and 5% tracking improvement on a Mega and T2 guns giving you 8-10% damage increase. Just flip a coin on this maybe.
For T2 ammo sniping in PVP: its not even a contest, you need T2 guns and T2 ammo.
Interesting.
-DE |
Aichi Awara |
Posted - 2009.08.27 06:24:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: Darius Brinn
I mainly fly a Sentry Dominix for mission running, and I already have T2 sentries and Drone Interfacing V.
However, I have found that rails in my Domi speed my ISK/hour quite a bit, and as of lately I have been considering getting a Megathron, because I want a gunboat and I like it's design.
What would benefit me the most? Training Gallente BS to V, or getting to T2 Large rails now for both the Domi and the future Mega?
The thing is, I've read somewhere that T2 rails are only better than faction ones when you get to Large Rail Spec IV, and not by much.
I have my support skills at IV and Large Railguns at IV too.
What would you recommend and why?
Dominix 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level I would recommend training BS V and then training T2 guns. I would think that those bonuses might help you finishing missions a bit faster since you're using t2 sentries there and that small increase in turrets might be nice too. I would think if you have high drone skills already, that 10% +5% extra might be better in general... play around eft with your skills and see which one gives you more favourable results. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians |
Posted - 2009.08.27 08:04:00 - [ 15]
Edited by: Darius Brinn on 27/08/2009 08:07:41
Yes, I use a Dominix. However, as I said, I fancy a gunboat.
Seeing as I exclusively PvE (for now), the +10% bonus to drone damage might be a better choice to have first, as I fit Sentry damage rigs and Drone Interfacing V and the bonuses rack up pretty nicely.
So it's Gallente Battleship V first, T2 rails later.
Also, there's something that surprised me in that EFT warrioring. Large Railgun Specialization is not supposed to affect T1 guns, right?
So with all skills at V, meaning LRE at V too, the difference between a meta 4 gun and a T2 gun should be MORE than the 10% that LRE implies. Does that mean T2 guns don't have a higher damage multiplier than Meta 4 guns?
I have to check that. I thought T2 guns were more desirable.
Thanks a lot. |
Darthewok
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.08.27 08:40:00 - [ 16]
Interesting points. Yeah checking EFT-
425mm Railgun I Damage Mod 2.75/ Optimal 48km
425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun Damage Mod 3.3/ Optimal 57.6km
no LRS bonus, cannot use T2 ammo
425mm Railgun II Damage Mod 3.3/ Optimal 57.6km
plus LRS bonus, can use T2 ammo
In other words, the best named T1 gun itself has identical stats to the T2.
However, so the difference between T2 and T1 best named is the LRS bonus (10% or so) and the ability to use T2 ammo (huge 50% difference for the range ammo, but not so relevant for the short ranged, as most PVPers use faction short range not T2 short range for the tracking).
Also, as a previous poster mentioned, if you don't have T2 guns, chances are your Large Hybrid Turret is at IV and not V, so that's 5% less damage too..
Eh, unless I missed something.
-DE |
Darius Brinn
Iberians |
Posted - 2009.08.27 09:35:00 - [ 17]
It is, indeed, very interesting.
The figures suggest me that, apart from a marginally (and situational) advantage due to ammo, the only advantage of using T2 rails comes from the skills needed to use them.
Sounds a bit silly, really. I have my 425mm rails, then I train a frigging long skill for an extra 10% DPS, but I have to change said rails for a new set just because the old large railgun does not benefit from me being a large railgun specialist.
Is it the same with lasers, missiles and projectiles? |
Vhiskey
Caldari
Imperial Forces
|
Posted - 2009.08.27 09:47:00 - [ 18]
for missiles: in pve youŽd almost never use T2 launchers. you stick with faction launchers and ammo |
Arous Drephius |
Posted - 2009.08.27 14:29:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Darius Brinn
Is it the same with lasers, missiles and projectiles?
Yes, the spec skills ONLY affect the appropriate T2 gun/launcher. |
RavenPaine |
Posted - 2009.08.28 20:45:00 - [ 20]
Specificly on the Domi , you get bonus for both drones and guns .Training BS 5 gives you more bang for the buck (literally) in my opinion . And it opens up more options for later than T2 rails will . |
Tuvar Hiede
Caldari
Quovis |
Posted - 2009.08.28 22:29:00 - [ 21]
BS 5 hands down. Y you ask easy, it works with the bonuses from the Mega and Domi in a 20 to 30 day train based on skills. Large 5 next then you have to do long range trag to 5 and then small and medium hybrids to 4. Only then can you train T2. That's how I did it personally. |
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