| Author |
Topic |
Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 15:55:00 - [ 61]
OP, I've done the lowsec mission thing. Realistically, it is most viable in quiet areas where you can just dock up or warp to ss and cloak when anyone enters the system. Eventually you get to know who's who so you don't have to dock for everyone. All in all, it's not worth it, but can be fun for a bit if you get a thrill from that sort of thing.
On a side note, when gankers are playing cat and mouse, I love to dock up and leave Eve logged on while I go to the mall or whatever. They will sit there like patient puppies for hours, praying for you to undock. It's pretty funny. |
Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 15:56:00 - [ 62]
 Originally by: Kurfin
It's like the Taliban complaining about the lack of tourists visiting Afghanistan.
Oh, and this line is great!!! Kurfin, I'm stealing this one. |
Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries |
Posted - 2009.07.21 16:16:00 - [ 63]
Ya another post to tell us all what we already know. Run high sec missions for isk. Run low sec for kicks. |
Forge Trader |
Posted - 2009.07.21 17:33:00 - [ 64]
Tried a similar lo-sec mission running experiment last year, with the same results. Even went to the trouble of setting up gate safes, station safes, & deep safes in the systems I was working. Problem: Could not get a mission done before being interrupted by pirates. Very persistent pirates, too. Once, they camped outside a lowsec station for 2 1/2 days waiting for me to come out to play.
Tried again earlier this year, found I could not complete any reasonably good mission in the time before I was found by pirates. Not particularly fun.
Conclusion: Lo-sec is over populated with predators. Like the Savannah, when there are too many predators for the range, the prey die or leave. The predators then concentrate on the remaining prey, eventually exterminating them.
EvE thus has a huge, unsolved problem: Most of EvE is empty. Carebears, which is most players, simply will not go where they cannot play and have a reasonable chance to succeed and survive.
How do you motivate more players to be prey when there are no rewards for doing so, and there are too many predators for the range?
|
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 19:13:00 - [ 65]
Originally by: Ndauthina
And while yes, the sentry drones will be scanable....
Drones are easily scanned out because they use MWD which blooms their signature. Sentry drones don't use MWD and so have a normal sig radius. |
ShadowGod56 |
Posted - 2009.07.21 19:35:00 - [ 66]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 17/07/2009 18:58:23
List of things OP did wrong:
1) Scanned for ships, rather than probes. Ships can probe out outside of d-scan range. Massive fail.
2) Decided to mission in a busy pocket of lowsec. Also massive fail. Hint: 0.0 ratters don't rat in EC-P8R. Maybe you should apply that reasoning to your missionrunning
3) *****ed on the forums.
It will be interesting to see how and if some pirates try to defend low-sec mission running.
he was doing an experiment you blind fool, you obviously cant read |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
|
Posted - 2009.07.22 00:00:00 - [ 67]
Ultimately, I don't think anyone will be swayed by all this. Low sec missions can be run just fine. I do them all the time and never have an issue. But I am also a very successful pirate so I know all the pirate's tricks and as such, can avoid them easily (or ambush them). High sec carebears do not know how pirates hunt and as such are largely at their mercy. Most show little interest in learning too as the OP has demonstrated. And so they stay in high sec and claim that every pirate can bust your mission in under a minute. That maybe true when they run a mission, but those who know what they are doing can avoid such a fate without any real fuss. The OP basically violated every piece of advice from those of us who actually run low sec missions and then complains about how it isn't worth while. It is worth while. Even if I got my sec out of the gutter, I wouldn't go back to high sec missions. Low sec missions pay almost twice as much and really aren't any more dangerous if you do them right. |
AtheistOfDoom
Amarr
Invicta.
|
Posted - 2009.07.22 00:07:00 - [ 68]
Originally by: Daskielle
Result: it isn't.
I run missions in low sec daily... I guess it just depends on where you live :) |
Andrea Griffin |
Posted - 2009.07.22 00:18:00 - [ 69]
I do low-sec mission running and exploration as well. I have a different method for ensuring that I am safe in these areas: I have made arrangements with the local powers-that-be. I pay a small monthly sum, they watch out for me. I mission and explore and rat in relative safety. Works great for me. |
Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
|
Posted - 2009.07.22 00:50:00 - [ 70]
Dakielle, I run missions in low sec exclusively so I speak from experience. I see pirates telling you that low is gravy and butter. They're not giving you the whole story. Yes, you can survive in low sec, but you do it at the expense of profit. Basically, if you decide to go to low sec do it because you want to primarily spend your time PVPing or doing something else other than mission running. Do not go to low sec if you don't have a powerful PVP corporation ready to defend you at a moment's notice. And if you do have a good corporation backing you up, then skip low sec altogether and try join a 0.0 alliance where you can make better isk. In low sec profitability and survivability are mutually exclusive  . I started a thread not too long ago on how low sec mechanics have sunk profitability in low sec. I highly recommend you spend a little time reading it as it emphasizes on techniques being used by pirates that pretty much guarantee your isk-making ship remains docked. And even in my thread you'll read of gankers claiming low sec is so awesome and great to run missions because they ran 2 missions last night. Keep in mind they don't do it for a living. Trust me, if you do it as a living you won't make much of a living. I’ve even received eve-mails from what I can only assume are low sec pirates, threatening to war-dec me for bringing this to light. It’s quite amusing actually. Anyway, if you still have any doubt go at it yourself as you have done with this experiment. Gather your own data and drive to your own conclusion. If you do decide to give it another try, please share your results with us. I’d be glad to know how it’s gone. Go to low sec to have some PVP fun. But nothing more. |
Kimi
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc. |
Posted - 2009.07.22 01:09:00 - [ 71]
Originally by: Kurfin
It will be interesting to see how and if some pirates try to defend low-sec mission running.
It always amuses me when the pirates whine about people staying in high sec, and how CCP should boost low-sec, they don't seem to realise that they are the problem. It's like the Taliban complaining about the lack of tourists visiting Afghanistan.
That is probably the best analogy I have seen of the situation. Someone described as carebears staying the "green zone" of Baghdad (high sec) vs almost certain death from IED's (gate campers and mission pirates). But it is not really like that - Baghdad is much safer outside the green zone than EVE is in low sec.  |
Kva Plexcha
Gallente
Doing You Right |
Posted - 2009.07.22 01:58:00 - [ 72]
Rothgar I pretty much agree with all your points. I was however gonna point out that I may be at a slightly more risk with my 5.0 standings than you at your -9.8 and 47 mil bounty .... but I'm glad you pointed this out .. please dont kill me  Anyways, if you are gonna do anything in lowsec, why would you stop at lvl 4 missions?. Dont most lvl 5 missions take place in low/null and pay way more? This would be my goal, the most bang for the buck. This is why I run plexes, the certain ones I always run usually yeild about 50 mil in loot and bounties, and the average deadspace loot drop, overall, is probably about a 100 mil, although I can get drops of 1.5 bill from time to time. So - about 200 mil give or take for about 2 hrs of work, with chance for jackpots now and then. This thread for me has been very informative to say the least. I find the OP is basically posting "I tried low sec, did everything wrong, and for some reason it didnt work, therefore lowsec is not worth it" I realize it was a test, but at least give it a fighting chance ... If the OP wants to come along on one of my plex runs send this char a eve-mail and I'll take you along - you can see what I do and how dangerous it really is ... and maybe make some good coin, who knows. I will say this, for pure profit and low risk, hi sec lvl 4 missioning is the way to go, thats what its there for ... but I like the risk, it adds to MY gameplay enjoyment, so I ply my trade in lowsec/null. And I dual box on a 1 year old laptop so I'm sure most solo guys could probably run 2 accounts on their comp if they wanted, and with all the isk they make from the lvl 4 missions they could pay for the second account solely with PLEXes. Anyways,for me a good and informative thread all around. |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2009.07.22 02:20:00 - [ 73]
I propose a new experiment. Take a mission in lowsec and bring a drake and a recon squad to it. The recon squad should contain at least one falcon and if possible one plgrim and one huginn. Additional stealth bombers might be worth taking along too. Get into the mission area, have the recons position themselves near the drake and have the drake start running the mission. When a pirate inevitably shows up, it could make for some fun :).
If I wasn't in wormhole space, I'd totally get together a group and do this. |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
|
Posted - 2009.07.22 04:45:00 - [ 74]
Originally by: Kva Plexcha
Rothgar I pretty much agree with all your points. I was however gonna point out that I may be at a slightly more risk with my 5.0 standings than you at your -9.8 and 47 mil bounty .... but I'm glad you pointed this out .. please dont kill me
Anyways, if you are gonna do anything in lowsec, why would you stop at lvl 4 missions?. Dont most lvl 5 missions take place in low/null and pay way more? This would be my goal, the most bang for the buck. This is why I run plexes, the certain ones I always run usually yeild about 50 mil in loot and bounties, and the average deadspace loot drop, overall, is probably about a 100 mil, although I can get drops of 1.5 bill from time to time. So - about 200 mil give or take for about 2 hrs of work, with chance for jackpots now and then.
This thread for me has been very informative to say the least.
I find the OP is basically posting "I tried low sec, did everything wrong, and for some reason it didnt work, therefore lowsec is not worth it"
I realize it was a test, but at least give it a fighting chance ... If the OP wants to come along on one of my plex runs send this char a eve-mail and I'll take you along - you can see what I do and how dangerous it really is ... and maybe make some good coin, who knows.
I will say this, for pure profit and low risk, hi sec lvl 4 missioning is the way to go, thats what its there for ... but I like the risk, it adds to MY gameplay enjoyment, so I ply my trade in lowsec/null.
And I dual box on a 1 year old laptop so I'm sure most solo guys could probably run 2 accounts on their comp if they wanted, and with all the isk they make from the lvl 4 missions they could pay for the second account solely with PLEXes.
Anyways,for me a good and informative thread all around.
I agree on most points here. It is definitely true that my pirate status makes things a bit easier. It won't deter professional pirates in the game but the casual pvp'er from either high sec or null sec will typically take one look at my bio and decide I'm not worth the risk even if I am clearly missioning. I also run a number of plex's in low sec and it is typically more profitable. I regularly hunt for radar and magnometric sites, on average I make 40M isk per plex and it rarely takes more than an hour between probing and actually running it. For those that are about to scream, that value is only an average. There are plex's that take 30 minutes to run and I pull 2M isk out of, others I make 150M isk in the same amount of time. It's all pretty random. Low sec missioning is something I do on the side. If it's a slow night on my low/high sec border system, I'll jump clone to my mission base 15-20 jumps deep into low sec on the other side of the eve universe. Sometimes I pirate there but it's rare. Often it's just me running missions or plex's so there really isn't anyone to attack. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
|
Posted - 2009.07.22 07:48:00 - [ 75]
Reading this thread and all of the points I just realized something.
Not all of the PVE capability is what it seems when the security status changes. It looks like much of the perception for how a lowsec mission should be run revolves around the same kind of ship you run it in higher security levels.
So are all of the missions being run the same?
That would be:
- blow up ALL of the hostiles
- blow up all structures that might contain something
- salvage all wrecks.
- make several trips if you have to.
Now, if the profitability of a mission depends on all of that, then I can see where it can be said that doing it in lowsec is not "as profitable".
I am also starting to see that there are two kinds of PVE fits. Rothgar says - and I know from experience - that you can use a PVP ship in a mission or plex, as I learned the hard way in a class six wormhole once (my ship survived, I got drunk. Then end).
But the "Lowsec PVE Ship" fitting may have to be something different from a high sec version, and beyond that, all of the steps that make a lvl 4 mission profitable in high sec, may simply not be possible in low.
Meaning that it may be overstating it to say that it "cannot be done" in lowsec. From the appearance of it, a mission may have to be adhered to more strictly in instruction, instead of treating them all the same. This means that those missions requiring to run a sentry gun gauntlet to unload a container, or kill one named hostile, and get out, means exactly that, instead of treating all missions the same (kill them all, loot, salvage, etc). And if the loot and salvage is the ONLY thing making such missions profitable, that could be another problem.
So it's looking like it is probable to get the missions done in low sec, as long as you are only out for the mission reward and LPs, do the job and GTFO. If you do get to loot them all and salvage because the system is deserted, fine, but as an expectation of reward and overall value, it should be reconsidered about what the goal is. |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative. |
Posted - 2009.07.22 09:53:00 - [ 76]
Edited by: Durzel on 22/07/2009 09:56:35 Originally by: Nyphur
I propose a new experiment. Take a mission in lowsec and bring a drake and a recon squad to it. The recon squad should contain at least one falcon and if possible one plgrim and one huginn. Additional stealth bombers might be worth taking along too. Get into the mission area, have the recons position themselves near the drake and have the drake start running the mission. When a pirate inevitably shows up, it could make for some fun :).
If I wasn't in wormhole space, I'd totally get together a group and do this.
If you're going to do that you might as well run the plexs instead, more chance of higher rewards. I think Carniflex hit the nail on the head earlier in the thread - whilst it's obviously possible to run missions in low-sec, when you factor in the effort involved and likelihood of having to abandon the mission for extended periods of time if you get probed out, being unable to safely loot/salvage, etc it just kills the ISK/hour. Ultimately that's the barometer for success in mission running isn't it? Very few people run missions hardcore for the challenge they represent. If you did as Carniflex suggested and compared two same-skilled pilots running L3 or L4 missions, one in high-sec and the other in low-sec you would definitely find the ISK/hour favour the high-sec mission runner sooner rather than later. Even in a quiet low-sec system all it takes is one solo roamer with evil in his/her heart to bring an end to your activities either via probing or actually blowing up your ship. Low-sec is the redheaded stepchild of Eve tbh. The slight improvement in bounties/LP is just not worth it to the typical mission-runner because it only takes one loss to take you back down to (and below) square one. You can run missions in high-sec in almost total safety assuming you aren't at war or stupid (i.e. responding to ninja-looters, etc). Equalising ship setups so that there isn't such a disparity between PVP and PVE fits would be a big step in the right direction imo - as of right now most PVP'rs know as soon as they see you on scan and know you're running a mission whether they can take you or not, and they will know that in most circumstances their prey will not have many of the modules (e.g. web, scram, neut/nos, smartbomb, etc) that could even the odds. |
scouty mcalterson |
Posted - 2009.07.22 15:03:00 - [ 77]
From my experience, it is not worth it. Yes, you can be paranoid and relatively safe, but you won't make anywhere near the money you could in high-sec. This is assuming you are trying to do it solo. If you join one of the local pirate corps where you want to mission, it's a great source of income. Since low-sec pirates are afraid of pvp'ing with other pvp'ers, all the pirate corps in an area are blue to each other. They only try to fight carebears. So just join up, run your missions and participate in a few ganks on the side for lulz. It's not too shabby. |
Jotobar |
Posted - 2009.07.22 16:56:00 - [ 78]
Edited by: Jotobar on 22/07/2009 16:56:38 Originally by: Kzintee
When you guys pay my subscription costs, I'll play by your rules. Until then, screw the lowsec pirates and their station and gate camps.
Tbh I will if you just stop talking. |
Keven |
Posted - 2009.07.22 20:35:00 - [ 79]
Heh. if they'd quadruple the rewards i'd be tempted to leave my carebear nest....
To the one who suggested doing lower level missions:
i'd wager me that killing hordes of bs sized mission drones in high sec will net me more ISK .... and faster too.
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2009.07.22 21:13:00 - [ 80]
Originally by: Durzel
Originally by: Nyphur
I propose a new experiment.
If you're going to do that you might as well run the plexs instead, more chance of higher rewards.
It wasn't meant as a way to make mission-running in lowsec safe and make ISK, it's meant as a hilarious way to turn the tables on would-be pirates. |
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