| Author |
Topic |
Stick Cult |
Posted - 2009.06.19 14:58:00 - [ 1]
I don't think there's anything wrong with the Doomsday atm. There are too many titans, let's deal with that problem. But DD's are not overpowered. Everyone's citing the recent event with 16 DD's killing a Thanatos...but that's 16 DD's, not one or two. Goons n' friends had 27 titans on grid, the problem isn't with DD's, but with having too many titans. People are saying that DD's can kill capital ships now, well sure they can, if an alliance actually fields a dozen titans in combat. The Thanatos kill was in an almost completely safe situation, and not in battle.
So please. Stop with the DD nerfs. |
Pedro Sangre
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore |
Posted - 2009.06.19 15:24:00 - [ 2]
I don't think you get it. That display was fair warning to EVE & CCP.
If titans / DDs aren't fixed, we (and others too most likely) will do it in combat...repeatedly...until even your bad posting is drowned out by the screams of broken and podded pubbies. |
Ausser
Bubba Gump ORE Corp. |
Posted - 2009.06.19 15:50:00 - [ 3]
 Originally by: Pedro Sangre
I don't think you get it. That display was fair warning to EVE & CCP.
If titans / DDs aren't fixed, we (and others too most likely) will do it in combat...repeatedly...until even your bad posting is drowned out by the screams of broken and podded pubbies.
This. Originally by: Stick Cult
...
There are too many titans, let's deal with that problem. But DD's are not overpowered.
...
So please. Stop with the DD nerfs.
Okay, then let's tailor the work we try to do in the other titan threads to your point of view, just to see if we can fix the problem. But how to do without to 'nerf' the titans? It's soo simple! We just buff the DDD to deal 1.000.000.000 dmg on each ignition. Now the titans will kill eachother untill only one is left. Problem solved. Profit.  |
Ortos
Federation of Freedom Fighters
|
Posted - 2009.06.19 16:17:00 - [ 4]
Originally by: Stick Cult
I don't think there's anything wrong with the Doomsday atm. There are too many titans, let's deal with that problem. But DD's are not overpowered. Everyone's citing the recent event with 16 DD's killing a Thanatos...but that's 16 DD's, not one or two. Goons n' friends had 27 titans on grid, the problem isn't with DD's, but with having too many titans. People are saying that DD's can kill capital ships now, well sure they can, if an alliance actually fields a dozen titans in combat. The Thanatos kill was in an almost completely safe situation, and not in battle.
So please. Stop with the DD nerfs.
and yet ppl still say that its only in 0,0 you can find real pvp  |
CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
C C P |
Posted - 2009.06.19 18:35:00 - [ 5]
Thread moved to General Discussion. |
CommmanderInChief |
Posted - 2009.06.19 18:43:00 - [ 6]
Originally by: Pedro Sangre
I don't think you get it. That display was fair warning to EVE & CCP.
If titans / DDs aren't fixed, we (and others too most likely) will do it in combat...repeatedly...until even your bad posting is drowned out by the screams of broken and podded pubbies.
this..fleet warfare is dead..1 or multiple I won buttons..trouble is eve has now become about numbers not about skill..you bring 5 titans ill bring 10, no one dares bring BS/Support fleets out cos they get obliterated now, it was bad enough when ppl have 1 titan you hoped to get away but with the ailly amouts now your getting triple DDD which there is no chance of survival, forget the DD tanked ships, the wont survive 2 or more and thats the way its going..so yes seriously nerf the production of titans and DDDs |
Abrazzar |
Posted - 2009.06.19 18:47:00 - [ 7]
One titan per controlled region. More difficulty to hold a complete region. Easier for smaller alliances to disrupt sovereignty. More fun claiming and maintaining sovereignty. Something like this. It needs a lot of work. |
Sir Muffoon
Debitum Naturae |
Posted - 2009.06.19 18:53:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: Abrazzar
One titan per controlled region. More difficulty to hold a complete region. Easier for smaller alliances to disrupt sovereignty. More fun claiming and maintaining sovereignty. Something like this. It needs a lot of work.
Per.. region? That's alot of space. |
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire |
Posted - 2009.06.19 18:55:00 - [ 9]
How about unnerf the low-sec DD so I can get rid of them pesky NPCs roaming the belts while I mine?!! |
Abrazzar |
Posted - 2009.06.19 19:04:00 - [ 10]
|
Sir Muffoon
Debitum Naturae |
Posted - 2009.06.19 19:07:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Abrazzar
You can get a new and improved (now with real really useful) Mothership per constellation.
I don't like it. Defenders already have enough advantages, this would just make 0.0 even more stale. DDDs should just get changed, and sov mechanics should be completely redone. Oh, and motherships made useful. I know that's pretty broad but really, there's a lot of threads on this. |
iP0D |
Posted - 2009.06.19 19:09:00 - [ 12]
Originally by: Pedro Sangre
I don't think you get it. That display was fair warning to EVE & CCP.
If titans / DDs aren't fixed, we (and others too most likely) will do it in combat...repeatedly...until even your bad posting is drowned out by the screams of broken and podded pubbies.
Welcome to 2006 You've either missed a few points or a few years :P Besides, looking at the latest lolDDcarrierkill hilarity you wonder how real people really are about their "opinions". Sure .. titans are bad, don't mind we just put a bid on two more and ordered 5 more components batches :P |
Van'Klomp
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities |
Posted - 2009.06.19 19:14:00 - [ 13]
You know, you guys could put some energy into generating some ideas and then pulling them apart (constructively!).
Idea one (disclaimer: I know not alot about Titans, I've only been killed by a Titan once, blah di blah)...
If an Alliance can field multiple Titans, then the Titans need to be far more vulnerable than they currently are. So, how about a BIG penalty for deploying a DD. For example; Firing the DD will consume all of the Titan's power. Once the DD has been fired, the Titan's systems must re-initialise (this could mean a complete shutdown of modules maybe), during which time (5 minutes? 10? 15? 30?) the Titan will be vulnerable to attack and must be guarded.
This is just an idea, so now pull it to bits, discard it if it's crap, or build on it if it has potential. But do it, CONSTRUCTIVELY! |
Dragon Greg |
Posted - 2009.06.19 19:14:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: Stick Cult
I don't think there's anything wrong with the Doomsday atm. There are too many titans, let's deal with that problem. But DD's are not overpowered. Everyone's citing the recent event with 16 DD's killing a Thanatos...but that's 16 DD's, not one or two. Goons n' friends had 27 titans on grid, the problem isn't with DD's, but with having too many titans. People are saying that DD's can kill capital ships now, well sure they can, if an alliance actually fields a dozen titans in combat. The Thanatos kill was in an almost completely safe situation, and not in battle.
So please. Stop with the DD nerfs.
Close but no cigar. Problem is not too many titans. Problem is us. We, the players. Just think for a moment, how many Titans would we choose to field in a sovereignty battle and how many doomsdays would we set off if the collective mass of a number of titans would disrupt say bubble mechanics, or dislodge pos defences from their online state. Or if excessive use of doomsdays would not just damage ships, but would hurt sovereignty structures like the cynojammer. Titans are just ships, very feeble ones at that. Doomsdays are nuclear weapons. Except in EVE they cause no fallout. If they did we'd be a lot less like sheep. |
Dragon Greg |
Posted - 2009.06.19 19:19:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: Van'Klomp
You know, you guys could put some energy into generating some ideas and then pulling them apart (constructively!).
Idea one (disclaimer: I know not alot about Titans, I've only been killed by a Titan once, blah di blah)...
If an Alliance can field multiple Titans, then the Titans need to be far more vulnerable than they currently are. So, how about a BIG penalty for deploying a DD. For example; Firing the DD will consume all of the Titan's power. Once the DD has been fired, the Titan's systems must re-initialise (this could mean a complete shutdown of modules maybe), during which time (5 minutes? 10? 15? 30?) the Titan will be vulnerable to attack and must be guarded.
This is just an idea, so now pull it to bits, discard it if it's crap, or build on it if it has potential. But do it, CONSTRUCTIVELY!
Nice line of thinking, but take a look at exactly how they are used. They are used specifically in excess because we do not want to risk a misfire, or a vulnerability, or even risk for that matter. The theory is sound, but breaks at human behaviour. A titan dies in about 40 seconds anyway these days, it is a glass cannon. Which is yet another reason for us to make more of them, for again the same reasons of vulnerability and risk. If setting off a DD would fry own cynojammer or such critical elements, people would be a lot more reserved with them. Might even be creative and visionary with them. |
Hyveres
Caldari
Resilience.
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2009.06.19 19:23:00 - [ 16]
Just make it impossible to cloak supercapitals and their numbers will go down a bit. |
Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
|
Posted - 2009.06.19 19:36:00 - [ 17]
Edited by: Crackzilla on 19/06/2009 19:48:37
It took a year for ccp to recognize the nano issue. How long will it take this time? We've been arguing that titans are going to be a problem for at least as long.
1) Prevent supercapitals from cloaking
2) a) nerf dd
b) stop the standard titan fitting of mwd, cloak, agility.
c) remove dd entirely
d) some combination of these
3) reduce the jump range of capitals and titans in particular
4) Give Chribba a titan in high sec
Until the titan issue is fixed the best solution is to protest by abusing the current game mechanics.
A similiar effect as a doomsday can be done with a bubble + bs + smartbombs but that isn't used as often. A fleet of a few dozen stealthbombers + bombs could also wipe out a fleet. Easier to organize a few titans pilots + cov ops. |
Escobar Noreaga
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2009.06.19 19:39:00 - [ 18]
DD's were bad before they were common and will only get more rediculous as time goes on.
low cost to kill unlimited targets is and will always be the problem untill its gotten rid of.
how bout changing the cost of setting of DD's to 2 bil. more then fair in its current state.
imho just get rid of the whole mechanic.
personally i pray that goons mass produce titans as fast as possible and show CCP the future of titan warefare.
|
Van'Klomp
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities |
Posted - 2009.06.19 19:40:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Dragon Greg
If setting off a DD would fry own cynojammer or such critical elements, people would be a lot more reserved with them. Might even be creative and visionary with them.
I like this line of thinking. |
Thebro Nobrunder
Schrodinger's Renegades |
Posted - 2009.06.19 21:39:00 - [ 20]
I definitely think eve needs more double D's  |
Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp |
Posted - 2009.06.19 21:46:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Thebro Nobrunder
I definitely think eve needs more double D's
pix! |
Ferdio Ricotez
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.06.19 21:49:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: Thebro Nobrunder
I definitely think eve needs more double D's
Actually, it's triple D (DoomsDay Device) Also, isn't this just tank rushing? I mean, if you play GDI in CnC you can just as well build 100 Mammoth tanks, and have a pwnage army, instead of a great mix of all types of infantry and units. I wouldn'd advice that for the Nod, though. Their units tend to easily fall apart when in tank rushes. Maybe the DDD should just hit the fitting Titan itself extra hard? |
Sharp Feather
Gallente
POS Builder Inc.
Silent Requiem |
Posted - 2009.06.19 21:53:00 - [ 23]
Originally by: Dragon Greg
Titans are just ships, very feeble ones at that. Doomsdays are nuclear weapons. Except in EVE they cause no fallout. If they did we'd be a lot less like sheep.
Great idea man, it need a fallout. If the systems get poisonned people, even if they win the fight, wont be able to hold it because of the fallout dot. Great idea man...really! |
Dragon Greg |
Posted - 2009.06.19 21:56:00 - [ 24]
Originally by: Van'Klomp
Originally by: Dragon Greg
If setting off a DD would fry own cynojammer or such critical elements, people would be a lot more reserved with them. Might even be creative and visionary with them.
I like this line of thinking.
Well it's the only way we ever think before we act like sheep tbh. When titans were created, or rather introduced (since the original idea came from an era vastly different from the one when they were introduced) they were thought to be the flagships of EVE. Massively expensive, massively superior. How naive. Never underestimate how crazy subscribers are. That same observation still applies. Take away the doomsday, and we all know what we will do. Nothing will stop us from good old fashioned doctrines of pumping as many people blind through a gate as we possibly can. To a point where planning to kill a node in order to win an objective becomes not just practical, but viable military doctrine again. We need doomsdays to keeps us sharp, and to prevent us from flocking mindlessly. Trouble is we go overboard deliberately with them. To a degree this is understandable, titans are glass cannons, and we - as much as we hate to admit it - just hate uncalculated risks. So we overcompensate. I hate real life analogies, but the only reason we have not blown ourselves up in real life is because nuclear weapons cause fallout which pretty much kills anything or at the minimum makes the victory incredibly sour. If doomsdays had a fallout element, we would behave very differently in our use of them. God help us, we might actually have to fight over a system instead of just using supercaps as a discouragement tool aimed to kill the pvp risk. We've seen all sorts of sensible and wierd proposals pass in the Assembly Hall, all much discussed and some even very ingenious on a level of game mechanics. None sofar even acknowledge that the biggest problem/variable in the equasion is us, the players. Many are subject to bias. Depending on their position in game everyone changes their views. Got to attack? Whine about titans and doomsdays and jammers. Got to defend? Pump the system full with titans, do a few PR stunts claiming you dislike it oh so much and ridicule it, while at the same time continuing to buy and build more and more ships. We have yet to see what CCP comes up with for the upcoming changes. Maybe this time they factor in their customers  |
Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
|
Posted - 2009.06.19 22:32:00 - [ 25]
|
jst tstng |
Posted - 2009.06.19 22:45:00 - [ 26]
Rock Paper Shotgun.
In other words, a new ship or ships. A designated titan killer. It doesnt need to be bigger just specialized to be a big problem for titans and can rock paper scissored by something already in game. |
Dragon Greg |
Posted - 2009.06.19 22:52:00 - [ 27]
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Sharp Feather
Originally by: Dragon Greg
Titans are just ships, very feeble ones at that. Doomsdays are nuclear weapons. Except in EVE they cause no fallout. If they did we'd be a lot less like sheep.
Great idea man, it need a fallout. If the systems get poisonned people, even if they win the fight, wont be able to hold it because of the fallout dot. Great idea man...really!
People would then favor scorched earth or total war strategies. As the guy above me mentioned, never underestimate how crazy us pod pilots are.
You know, I would consider that a valid and very fun option. Burn the space you are about to loose, or get an alliance to kill themselves, or kill them to a point where they really die. Or fight a war where both sides face a real war of attrition. Either way, with everything falling or burning to pieces no shields like sovereignty remain to shelter blobs, there would be a much higher need to really fight. Or flee and then have fun with the firesales. Older people will remember places like FA or Xetic and may be able to relate to that a bit easier. |
Dragon Greg |
Posted - 2009.06.19 22:56:00 - [ 28]
Originally by: jst tstng
Rock Paper Shotgun.
In other words, a new ship or ships. A designated titan killer. It doesnt need to be bigger just specialized to be a big problem for titans and can rock paper scissored by something already in game.
That is .. almost silly. Either that or I do not fully understand what you mean. Ever shot at one? :P If a normal gang just so much as looks at one it melts :P There's just two challenges in killing a titan: 1. tackling it. 2. having people alive to tackle and kill it after the other 27 doomsdays from the backup titans. Glass cannons, but there has to be at minimum a big fat fallout element, maybe even an upper limit to a point where the gigantic mass starts unanchoring the outpost in the system or something like that. Why not. In the storylines the old NPC titans, while bigger then our player titans can't go near planets or moons. I could see ours having really bad consequences when there's 12 at a pos or an outpost :P |
Alt lock |
Posted - 2009.06.19 23:19:00 - [ 29]
Originally by: jst tstng
Rock Paper Shotgun.
In other words, a new ship or ships. A designated titan killer. It doesnt need to be bigger just specialized to be a big problem for titans and can rock paper scissored by something already in game.
A good idea here short and sweet Plus NEW SHIP!!! |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2009.06.19 23:30:00 - [ 30]
HICs were introduced with the purpose of titan/mothership tackling. At least it was one of their intended roles. HICs are still the best tools for killing a titan. Usually HICs can take 2 DDD, but with 3+ they die.
If HICs could have some kind of immunity or strong resistance to DDD, you'd see a lot more titan deaths. Still, even with that, the production rate of titans would greatly exceed losses.
Another major factor in titan proliferation is their ability to fit cloaking devices. If they were unable to cloak, they would be used less often, more strategically, and of course, end up dying slightly more often.
Still, that would not stop the inevitable overflow of titans, where their numbers keep increasing almost unchecked. The day when titan fleet will be able to destroy a cap fleet will be a major turning point in fleet dynamics. I'm not sure CCP fully understands just how important those changes will be. But Goons, PL, and many other experienced people are trying to give them a hint. |
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