Posted - 2009.06.18 22:10:00 - [2]

 

Originally by: Nkalv

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1. Make gang bonuses apply to the ship whit the mods on even if his not in a gang.
2. Make gang mods work even when in warp.
3. Make gang links weaker the higher up the command chain they are, not much but a few % to make a point

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allow me to pick apart you post to why this is daft as anything


1. Make gang bonuses apply to the ship whit the mods on even if his not in a gang.

-->GANG<-- bonuses mean just that gang, if you are not in a gang the bonuses do not apply

2. Make gang mods work even when in warp.

you cant be attacked in warp and so they are of no use during warp

3. Make gang links weaker the higher up the command chain they are, not much but a few % to make a point


because people are using it in a fleet against you and toko the initiative to use them to the fullest this should be nerfed?????

how about you form up a big fleet and do the same ¬_¬


stop your whining and do something about it like train up for it


i fly eos and dammination and both are increadibly good ships and have great benefits.

cant use them train them

Posted - 2009.06.18 22:47:00 - [4]

 

i love my CS and provide such a good role , little firepower with them selves so not expecting to see me on many top of the damage dealers but your role there help your fleet accomplish that goal much better and easier . and with better survivability.

if you do what op suggests you will ruin a very little used ship group which activly helps small gang warfare.

Posted - 2009.06.18 22:52:00 - [6]

 

Originally by: Armoured C

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i love my CS and provide such a good role , little firepower with them selves so not expecting to see me on many top of the damage dealers but your role there help your fleet accomplish that goal much better and easier . and with better survivability.

if you do what op suggests you will ruin a very little used ship group which activly helps small gang warfare.

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they are balanced for 20vs20 fights and bigger but not for 3vs3 and such. and that is my point. my suggestions wouldnt disturbe the bigger fights but increase there use in the smaller fights.

Posted - 2009.06.18 22:59:00 - [8]

 

how do gang mods work in relation to Squad, Wing, Fleet? does a CS running a gang mod in a wing filter back "up stream" or does someone need the fleet skills to effect a whole fleet?

just wondering as i one day i want to train into some supporting type roles.

Posted - 2009.06.18 23:10:00 - [10]

 

Originally by: Armoured C

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Originally by: Nkalv

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Originally by: Armoured C

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Originally by: Nkalv

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1. Make gang bonuses apply to the ship whit the mods on even if his not in a gang.
2. Make gang mods work even when in warp.
3. Make gang links weaker the higher up the command chain they are, not much but a few % to make a point

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allow me to pick apart you post to why this is daft as anything


1. Make gang bonuses apply to the ship whit the mods on even if his not in a gang.

-->GANG<-- bonuses mean just that gang, if you are not in a gang the bonuses do not apply

2. Make gang mods work even when in warp.

you cant be attacked in warp and so they are of no use during warp

3. Make gang links weaker the higher up the command chain they are, not much but a few % to make a point


because people are using it in a fleet against you and toko the initiative to use them to the fullest this should be nerfed?????

how about you form up a big fleet and do the same ¬_¬


stop your whining and do something about it like train up for it


i fly eos and dammination and both are increadibly good ships and have great benefits.

cant use them train them

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1. your missing the point, 1-3 gangs sometimes means i will not be in local whit my m8s, why should gang mods be useless then? typical + to big gangs that isnt needed.

2. Same here when your just a few guys(2-3) in gang you more dependent on the gang bonus for your tactics to work.

3. blobs already have the strengh in numbers why give them more?

i have full skill for my prefered gang bonus your train arugment is bs

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well then you are a useless pilot and have failed to understand the way to fly a CS effectivly


just because you are in a gang but not in space doesnt make you a gang


you have to be WITH your gang to work , flying small group you shouldn't even need to depend on the bonuses to make your gang work , if you have to rely on the bonuses then you gang has neither the correct ship types in the gang to make it feesable,

and to top it all off no it is not since you say big fleet , where there are tonns of different variants of fleet

for example a large POS bashing RR BS fleet need armour for buffer tank , so the dammination comes in handy to make it so. your thinking to broad minded.


you have shown neither the ability or the understanding of a commandship pilot to even call your self one.

it not about the bonuses to make your fleet better it about the extra survivability , if you small gang isnt good with a CS a CS wont help with extra bonuses.

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sigh...

Why does gang skills have to work better for a 100man gang then a 4 man gang?

Iam not proposing big changes, if you read my arguments again all your questions are answered.

Posted - 2009.06.18 23:18:00 - [12]

 

Originally by: Nkalv

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sigh...

Why does gang skills have to work better for a 100man gang then a 4 man gang?

Iam not proposing big changes, if you read my arguments again all your questions are answered.

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the bonuses work both the same with small or large and with that you get the bonuses of a small or large gang,

small you are low in number but quicker to move unlike a large fleet with has bigger numbers.

the bonuses are the same they are just applied to more people.


you are trying hard to turn this into something well i can tell you that we had no complaints about bonuses when our 9 man gate camp in doril with a CS on the field with 6 command modules. we had all the bonuses we wanted , CS wa s alt and CS ship itself was at a pos.


please learn to use your CS properly before comming on the forums spouting crap saying this need to change.

CS dont need to change YOU need to change how you use yours in what sounds a farce of small gangs reliant of your bonuses instead of actually being a bonus.

Posted - 2009.06.18 23:28:00 - [14]

 

Originally by: Armoured C

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Originally by: Nkalv

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sigh...

Why does gang skills have to work better for a 100man gang then a 4 man gang?

Iam not proposing big changes, if you read my arguments again all your questions are answered.

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the bonuses work both the same with small or large and with that you get the bonuses of a small or large gang,

small you are low in number but quicker to move unlike a large fleet with has bigger numbers.

the bonuses are the same they are just applied to more people.


you are trying hard to turn this into something well i can tell you that we had no complaints about bonuses when our 9 man gate camp in doril with a CS on the field with 6 command modules. we had all the bonuses we wanted , CS wa s alt and CS ship itself was at a pos.


please learn to use your CS properly before comming on the forums spouting crap saying this need to change.

CS dont need to change YOU need to change how you use yours in what sounds a farce of small gangs reliant of your bonuses instead of actually being a bonus.

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iam sorry what are you arguments against my ideas?

teh bonus doesnt work same whit a small and a big gang. that is pretty obvious since your bonus have alot more impact.

i dont know why your trying to make this argument personal.

its not about command ships either, are you forgeting battlecruisers?

my main point still stands unanswered "Why does gang skills have to work better for a 100man gang then a 4 man gang?"

Posted - 2009.06.18 23:52:00 - [16]

 

Originally by: Armoured C

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your main point doesn't stand because you get the same bonus towards every ship no matter the gang size.
if you get 12% bonuses to sheild recharge rate you will get that for every ship no matter race, ship class to every ship in the fleet.

just because someone brought a bigger fleet that you it is now deemed unfair. because someone had the initiative which you clealy lack for being a CS pilot

for the module to work the title of the group of mods GANG (--->GANG<---) (*******GANG*******) suggest that you need to be with and in a fleet ¬_¬ if you cant work that out then fly some other class of ship. if your out the system your not with your gang so why should the gang bonuses work when there is no gang in the system. it not exactly hard , you dont even need to be with the gang int he system just in the system ,

you not using it to scout are you lol


this is eve it is never going to be fair.

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A bonus is always stronger the more people that benefite from it.

Calling me incompentent is not in your favour. you still have no reason for a gang mod to not work in warp.
you have no reason to suggest iam useing the ship wrong. you are just in a bigger gang.

i want smaller gangs

Posted - 2009.06.19 01:28:00 - [18]

 

So... lets just get this straight. You want to nerf gang mods so they favour smaller gangs?

tl;dr: No. Bad idea.

How the hell is that going to work exactly? For those mods to affect an entire fleet the person in the CS needs to have sacrificed a significant amount of time to be able to give those bonuses to a fleet. Fleet command I (rank 12) needs wing command V (rank 8) and leadership V (rank 1) plus all the other skills for specific bonuses.

That is time they are not putting into spaceship command, or gunnery, or whatever, they have trained those skills in order to grant their bonuses to the fleet. Bonuses they are not getting when they are not with a gang. Nerfing the bonuses will mean that every squad has a command ship at best, or that people with command ships are left out of fleet entirely (at worst). It won't do anything to alter gang sizes encountered. A bonused 4 man gang will still lose to an unbonused 10 man gang if everything else is even.

Not only that, but a person in a support CS is not adding anything significant to a fleet EXCEPT the bonuses. Astarte and Eos, Absolution and Damnation. In a fight which contributes more in the way of firepower? Which sacrifices offensive capability for added boosting of gang members? In a game where so few people are willing to fly support ships because they won't appear on a killmail, you want to push pilots further away from support ships? Why not go ahead and nerf logistics as well?

If you have trained leadership 5 and have a bunch of skills granting bonuses, taking a 4 man gang against a 10 man gang led by someone with the exact same skills isn't unfair, it means that you did not utilize the skills you have trained. Aside from foolishly engaging when seriously outnumbered, if you can give bonuses to 10 people, who's fault is it you brought only 4 to the fight?

Gang bonuses should NOT apply to people who are not in gangs, if they did, they won't BE gang bonuses, they would be: shield management, long range targeting, etc, given a new name.

Posted - 2009.06.19 08:54:00 - [20]

 

Edited by: Nkalv on 19/06/2009 08:54:50

Originally by: Mikael Mechka

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So... lets just get this straight. You want to nerf gang mods so they favour smaller gangs?

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no i want to buff them for small gangs. also i dont want bonuses to apply to ships not in a gang, just to the ship whit the gang mods even if he doesnt have any gang m8s in local.

also dr deadbolt thats hardly an argument

Posted - 2009.06.19 09:48:00 - [22]

 

Originally by: Nkalv

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also i dont want bonuses to apply to ships not in a gang, just to the ship whit the gang mods even if he doesnt have any gang m8s in local

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But then he wouldn't be in a gang!

Btw:

whit n. The least bit; an iota: doesn't give a whit what was said; not a whit afraid.
with accompanied by; accompanying: I will go with you. He fought with his brother against the enemy.

Cheers,
Arrs

Posted - 2009.06.19 12:20:00 - [26]

 

Originally by: Nkalv

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Edited by: Nkalv on 18/06/2009 22:03:17
Edited by: Nkalv on 18/06/2009 22:02:54
They favour big gangs too much at the moment. I have three small suggestions that would change that a bit.
1. Make gang bonuses apply to the ship whit the mods on even if his not in a gang.
2. Make gang mods work even when in warp.
3. Make gang links weaker the higher up the command chain they are, not much but a few % to make a point

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1. No - then it is just a potentially beefier version of existing ship mods that happens to fit in a high slot. This will skew the balance against non-command ships when it comes to things such as tanking (The Vulture already has one of the toughest passive tanks in the game without an automatic +25% resists while soloing that wont impact it's weapon loadout).
2. I actually agree with this. If you can use them safe in POS shields then you should be able to use them warping. Either that, or have them only ever apply to gang-members on grid. Similarly if your gangmates are docked or hiding safely in another system (high sec while you're in low for example) you should not count them as being in your gang. In-system gangmates only.
3. No. It takes months upon months of training to be able to gangmod a whole fleet and have the option of assigning different gang bonuses cascading down the chain of command. This is the ust reward for leadership specialists who have to build their training plans and implant loadouts around what is better for their friends and not themselves.

Posted - 2009.06.19 13:09:00 - [28]

 

1. Yes you can be in a gang of 1. If a gang bonus only applies to a gang of more then 1 but not to the gang of 1 then the gang bonus should not apply to the command ship in the gang of many just as it doesnt apply to the command ship in the gang of 1.

2. Agreed.

3. Agreed.

The unfortunate thing about CCP is they're pretty thick when it comes to anything that does not require ganking or gangs. The sandbox only applies if theres a gang of kids in the sandpit, kicking the **** out of the little loner kid in the corner.

As for the 'command ship pilots train for months to get those bonuses to give to their gang members' well, so do command ship pilots who arent in a gang but are just as skilled, yet they get ... nothing.

Stupid game, stupid rules, stupid people responding.

Infinity Ziona

Posted - 2009.06.19 14:01:00 - [30]

 

Originally by: Ausser

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3. Why? Why does the game needs lage gangs to be nerfed? Is there something broken i've missed? Small gangs work nice (except small 3 man gangs with fleet cs only ) and large gangs work nice too. So what would a gang size penalty fix for you?

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Lag