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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.06.03 07:46:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Jin Nib
Edited by: Jin Nib on 03/06/2009 07:41:07
Originally by: Blane Xero
Seller promises character for isk.

Buyers A and B (B being the OP, A being the successful buy) both bid buyout at the same time, Buyer B foolishly transfers isk ahead of confirmation.

Edit - Oh yeah, forgot to mention:
PS Keep up~

Seller sells character to buyer A. Keeps B's isk regardless of the lack of sale.

That last part is what is against the rules. Like i said.

Keep Up~

Forgot the last part where:

Buyer A recives character. Buyer B recives ISK. Buyer A has massive negative balence, and seller is still sitting happy.


Um, No. Considering Buyer B sent the ISK to the Seller, not buyer A. CCP would remove the ISK from one of the Sellers characters, NOT The transferred character. Seller gets shafted for keeping ISK he was legally bound to return.

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2009.06.03 07:47:00 - [62]
 

Right, and you're the one who keeps telling people to keep up? Yikes.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.06.03 07:52:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Jin Nib
Right, and you're the one who keeps telling people to keep up? Yikes.
Yeah cause your the one i'm having to explain this to when you come up with dumb a comment like you did.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.06.03 07:52:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Jin Nib
Right, and you're the one who keeps telling people to keep up? Yikes.


Keep up, Blane was talking about the situation in his hypothetical example, not the situation that triggered the hypothetical example.

What happened in the actual situation is that some half-asleep non-English-speaking GM messed up and took the ISK from the wrong wallet.


Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2009.06.03 07:59:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Jin Nib
Right, and you're the one who keeps telling people to keep up? Yikes.
Yeah cause your the one i'm having to explain this to when you come up with dumb a comment like you did.

Well I guess I'm just dumb. So sorry. Although you still havent explained where the scam is in this case which was my original question. Neutral

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.06.03 07:59:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Blane Xero on 03/06/2009 08:00:54
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Jin Nib
Right, and you're the one who keeps telling people to keep up? Yikes.


Keep up, Blane was talking about the situation in his hypothetical example, not the situation that triggered the hypothetical example.
This^



Originally by: Mara Rinn
What happened in the actual situation is that some half-asleep non-English-speaking GM messed up and took the ISK from the wrong wallet.



Retracted, read the linked thread.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.06.03 08:02:00 - [67]
 

This was a case of getting stuck in the "Character Bizarre", methinks.


Etien Aldragoran
Legitimate Corporation
Posted - 2009.06.03 08:04:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
so u sent isk without talking to the seller to confirm you won???
and even worse you offerd your buyout after the other guyLaughing

sorry, but u havnt been scammed at all.
by the looks of the thread the seller has followed all the rules of char auctions



The GMs are pretty anal about this. Any time this has happened for me, I've had the ISK taken out of my wallet and given back to the idiots who go ahead and send ISK without confirmation through a thread as defined by the rules.


So when I accidently buy a shuttle on the market for 10 BN, I can just petition for it back?

When you accidentally throw a character in there as well, yes.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.06.03 08:05:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Jin Nib
Right, and you're the one who keeps telling people to keep up? Yikes.
Yeah cause your the one i'm having to explain this to when you come up with dumb a comment like you did.

Well I guess I'm just dumb. So sorry. Although you still havent explained where the scam is in this case which was my original question. Neutral


My comment about scamming in regards to character transfers was directed at the "Keeping the isk regardless of a Lack of sale".

Whether it was originally intended as a scam, it BECAME a scam/steal (Define it as you will) When the seller of the character refused to give back the ISK of the refused offer.

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2009.06.03 08:14:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Jin Nib
Right, and you're the one who keeps telling people to keep up? Yikes.
Yeah cause your the one i'm having to explain this to when you come up with dumb a comment like you did.

Well I guess I'm just dumb. So sorry. Although you still havent explained where the scam is in this case which was my original question. Neutral


My comment about scamming in regards to character transfers was directed at the "Keeping the isk regardless of a Lack of sale".

Whether it was originally intended as a scam, it BECAME a scam/steal (Define it as you will) When the seller of the character refused to give back the ISK of the refused offer.
Fair enough.
Originally by: Blane Xero
This^
Personaly I love these arguments where people are talking about different things. It makes the world such a wonderful place. And look at what a mess we made of the thread!

Ah.... I feel so sated now. My work here is done for the day! YARRRR!!

iP0D
Posted - 2009.06.03 08:25:00 - [71]
 

Scam, no scan, it is all irrelevant. Where it comes to character sales CCP just does not allow for anything shady regardless of circumstances or intent.

The OP is not the first one to send ISK in order to push the seller over the brink, he is also not the first one to get his money back after the seller ignored his buyout, bid, or whatever. Once upon a time I thought I could keep the ISK someone sent as a buyout as I had not accepted or even acknowledged his bid, a week later a GM reversed the transaction, meh.

Eben Rochelle
Gallente
RPS holdings
Posted - 2009.06.03 08:41:00 - [72]
 

thats crap, no way you should have got the isk back. Pure stupidity on your part.

Mystafyre
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.06.03 08:43:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Tsuya
How long does it usually take for a character scam petition to be looked at? I've been a victim of such an act for 5 days now, and my petition hasn't been answered at all. I've lost a large sum of isk and am wondering why no action has been taken.

Is this category of petition a high priority or does it usually take a while to see a result? Or is there a huge backlog of petitions for the GMs?

Please share your experiences! :)
Don't worry, they will fix it for you, might take day or two at most.

Warpout Warpout
Posted - 2009.06.03 09:04:00 - [74]
 

ha ha ha

So CCP jacked the money back from Zane Tempest. No warning, no questions, no investigation. Just woke up to negative 7B in the bank today.

Zane Tempest is now MY character. Where I am Buyer A. NOT THE SELLER!

Of course the petition is in. I have faith that CCP will solve this issue with satisfaction towards all customers. Meanwhile, My wallet has a hella negative balance, and I do feel just a little bit like I am being punished for being the only person who WAS doing things by the book.

What a beautiful misunderstanding eh? 5 days you said, for petition response?

You did say it was unconditional, Tsuya. Glad you got your iskies back. :)

-Warpout

Kuranta
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2009.06.03 09:05:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Kuranta on 03/06/2009 09:06:24
As much as I pesonally would like the OP to lose his ISK for beeing stupid, scams are not allowed when selling charcters. And what happened might be seen as a scam.

Official definition of scam by CCP:

Quote:
A scam is what happens when someone takes advantage of your misplaced trust, temporary confusion or ignorance of game rules, and robs you via legal in-game means.


Linkage

So, Tsuya was ignorant of the character transfer rules. And the seller kind of robbed his isk by not giving them back. So a GM might see it as a scam.


Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.06.03 09:17:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Warpout Warpout
ha ha ha

So CCP jacked the money back from Zane Tempest. No warning, no questions, no investigation. Just woke up to negative 7B in the bank today.

Zane Tempest is now MY character. Where I am Buyer A. NOT THE SELLER!

Of course the petition is in. I have faith that CCP will solve this issue with satisfaction towards all customers. Meanwhile, My wallet has a hella negative balance, and I do feel just a little bit like I am being punished for being the only person who WAS doing things by the book.

What a beautiful misunderstanding eh? 5 days you said, for petition response?

You did say it was unconditional, Tsuya. Glad you got your iskies back. :)

-Warpout
Good luck to you, the only one who had any regard on what they should do.

Ivy Scorn
Amarr
Nethro Ore Conglomerate
Posted - 2009.06.03 09:26:00 - [77]
 

Don't forget to ask for a return with interest. Very Happy

Lilla Kharn
Amarr
Posted - 2009.06.03 09:29:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Lilla Kharn on 03/06/2009 09:30:37
Originally by: Warpout Warpout
ha ha ha

So CCP jacked the money back from Zane Tempest. No warning, no questions, no investigation. Just woke up to negative 7B in the bank today.

Zane Tempest is now MY character. Where I am Buyer A. NOT THE SELLER!

Of course the petition is in. I have faith that CCP will solve this issue with satisfaction towards all customers. Meanwhile, My wallet has a hella negative balance, and I do feel just a little bit like I am being punished for being the only person who WAS doing things by the book.

What a beautiful misunderstanding eh? 5 days you said, for petition response?

You did say it was unconditional, Tsuya. Glad you got your iskies back. :)

-Warpout


My sympathies to you, OP needs to learn how to read stickies. I believe it was OP's fault all the way and he / she should have lost the ISK for not getting a confirmed sell before sending.

Zane Tempest
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
Posted - 2009.06.03 10:07:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Zane Tempest on 03/06/2009 10:17:02
I'm broke! ugh

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.06.03 16:19:00 - [80]
 

I think it is bull**** to reward idiots for being idiots.

I don't care if its Characters Sales or not.

This kind of thing just cheapens the professionalism some of us waste our time with when selling characters.

Maybe I would return the ISK, maybe I wouldn't. It should not be up to CCP to decide how nice I am to stupid people.

GM Nova

Posted - 2009.06.04 08:56:00 - [81]
 

Hello

It is clearly stipulated in our Character Bazar rules that any forms of scamming is prohibited.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1006123

We will not go into semantics regarding the meaning of the word scam and what is included. The no scam rule is ALL inclusive. So if you value you EVE account, do not eve think about scamming anyone or robbing them of their ISK through the Bazar in any way.

Best regards,
GM Nova
Senior Game Master

McFly
Peanut Factory
Posted - 2009.06.04 09:05:00 - [82]
 

Double Sig there Nova?

Caldari Citizen687461864149
Posted - 2009.06.04 10:13:00 - [83]
 

Removed. Please do not impersonate another poster. Zymurgist

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.06.04 10:51:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: GM Nova
Hello

It is clearly stipulated in our Character Bazar rules that any forms of scamming is prohibited.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1006123

We will not go into semantics regarding the meaning of the word scam and what is included. The no scam rule is ALL inclusive. So if you value you EVE account, do not eve think about scamming anyone or robbing them of their ISK through the Bazar in any way.

Best regards,
GM Nova
Senior Game Master

Is it a scam when you don't send ISK back someone sent you on accident because that person was too much in a hurry to throw ISK around before any form of deal was verified as accepted and legally binding according to the rules described in your link?

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2009.06.04 10:58:00 - [85]
 

While I fully agree to the no-scamming concerning characters (I'm not a fan of scamming anyway) I DO think that giving back the isk to the OP was a wrong decision. It's understandable from a "honest mistake" POV, but the seller did NOT scam, steal or had any other mal intent. He was selling a character and someone who he didn't accept as the buyer (he didn't even accept the bid) sent him some cash prematurely.

That is not the OP being scammed, that is the OP being stupid. Again I understand the blanket rule of "no BSing with char sales" but at the very least the OP should keep quiet about being scammed and step down a peg or two because it was his stupidity in an honest sale, NOT a scam.


TraininVain
Posted - 2009.06.04 11:02:00 - [86]
 

Regardless of the "EVE is a cold dark universe" stuff I'm sure you can all see why CCP can't allow people to come anywhere to scamming people through teh character bazaar forum or even looking like they are.

It's too far into weird linden-dollars territory.

Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.06.04 11:34:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Shadow Devourer
CCP's game, CCP's rules. Don't like that the op's isk got returned feel free to quit. With that out of the way taking the isk from the current owner was extremely stupid.


Dude... Your face?

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.06.04 14:11:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: GM Nova
Hello

It is clearly stipulated in our Character Bazar rules that any forms of scamming is prohibited.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1006123

We will not go into semantics regarding the meaning of the word scam and what is included. The no scam rule is ALL inclusive. So if you value you EVE account, do not eve think about scamming anyone or robbing them of their ISK through the Bazar in any way.

Best regards,
GM Nova
Senior Game Master


As far as I can tell the only party that was in the wrong was the GM that bungled the petition.

The OP was not scammed, no matter what semantics you choose to use.

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2009.06.04 15:29:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Random Womble on 04/06/2009 15:28:53
Out of intrest what happened to the old rule that the seller had to then post in thread with a second character, right after intial post with char being sold, confirming that they would be recieving the isk (this is after it would have been stated by char being sold that isk was being transfered to XXXX).

Because the lack of that old rule seems to be why the guy that actually bought the char got the isk removed rather than the guy that actually sold the char which while im sure it will be sorted out is an avoidable problem.

Kel Nissa
Posted - 2009.06.04 17:35:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Kel Nissa on 04/06/2009 17:36:45
Personally i dont question if the OP scammed or not.

The odd thing is only that warpout did not scam. Why did the GM punish him for a problem between 2 other persons?

Or did the GM prove somehow that warpout is just an alt of the character seller and was as such directly involved? Even then wouldnt it be a better solution to transfer the isks from the seller to the OP instead of taking it from warpout? Because its obviously that the seller was involved.

Edit: I mean when its done like that (isks taken from seller), the seller has isks for one character, warpout has his the character and lacks on isks for one character. The OP has the same isks as nothing happend. All parties happy, no damage applied to all 3 of them.


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