| Author |
Topic |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point. |
Posted - 2009.05.20 11:55:00 - [ 31]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 20/05/2009 11:55:56
zealot: 5 turrets, rof bonus und and dmg bonus
projectile bonuses on energy weapons
plus laser bonus of cap reduction
plus optimal
and the pg to actually back that up
it wouldnt be so imbalanced if the zealot had the same problems fitting the biggest guns as any other hac:
example focused medium beam zealot:
[Zealot, New Setup 1]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
0.065 rad/s btw
would still beat a 720mm muninn in a 50-60km battle:
[Muninn, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium M
Auto Targeting System II
[empty high slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
0.037 rad/s btw
tl;dr you could nick 250MW pg off the zealot and it'd still be tougher |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T. |
Posted - 2009.05.20 12:00:00 - [ 32]
 Originally by: Noskill McCheese
Also, I don't see how you can squeeze enough grid out to fit a LSE with a rack of 720 II's unless I drop the MWD, which would be dumb. Currently my tank is being 90km outside the other guy's optimal, and a flight of ecm hornets if an inty gets too close without dying. I like the rush.
This is what I can fit now, with shield upgrades 5 you can make it all t2, 22k ehp. ACR are expensive but then so are HAC... [Muninn, 100km snipe realistic skills] Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 'Arbalest' Standard Missile Launcher, Sabretooth Light Missile [empty high slot] Projectile Locus Coordinator I Ancillary Current Router I Warrior II x5 |
FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
|
Posted - 2009.05.20 12:40:00 - [ 33]
I like the Muninn, but I freely acknowledge it isn't that good. I've been flying it a lot lately around PB. I like the drone bay - what I don't like are the two utility high slots. Either make one of them another turret slot (with the fitting to add another 720mm II), or move them to the mids (with the fitting to add LSE IIs there). I think it would be a pretty awesome ship if you could fit a proper shield buffer to it. A 5-5-5 config would be pretty sweet (with a fix to artillery in general).
I do rig mine - for that extra bit of KM whoring. If you are going to rely on an alpha strike ship, you have to be able to lock fast. With this setup I can sometimes get the lock on a ceptor and kill it before it gets up to speed.
[Muninn, Fleet Muninn]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M
'Arbalest' Standard Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Flameburst Light Missile
'Arbalest' Standard Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Flameburst Light Missile
Targeting System Subcontroller I
Targeting System Subcontroller I
Warrior II x5
It is a fun ship to fly (was a fun ship to fly, apparently I logged off too soon the other night, didn't realize I still had aggro, and woke up in a pod, been flying a Vaga since then).
|
Murtific
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2009.05.20 12:43:00 - [ 34]
You guys are so freaking newbish, its not even close to being funny.....
Zealots do not need a buffer if you have a good FC
Munins do not need a buffer if you have a good FC
Eagles do not need a buffer if you have a good FC
Deimos' do not need a buffer if you have a good FC
Zealots properly sniper fitted can shoot 119km optimal
Munins properly sniper fitted can shoot 114km optimal
Eagles properly sniper fitted can shoot ******ed far........
Deimos properly sniper fitted can shoot 91km optimal + 20km falloff, using a frentix booster you can get 100km. which is perfectly freaking fine for a sniper hac......
NOW SHUSHHH and learn how pro's do it.......
Did I mention 3 damage mods on all 3 ships???? go back to your asteroid belts and your silly RL death threats....
I also forgot to mention the 500 dps a zealot can do with pulse's at 50km? Silly people.. Silly...... |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T. |
Posted - 2009.05.20 12:59:00 - [ 35]
Originally by: Murtific
Zealots do not need a buffer if you have a good FC
Munins do not need a buffer if you have a good FC
Eagles do not need a buffer if you have a good FC
Deimos' do not need a buffer if you have a good FC
Ever been at a hostile POS? Isn't it nice to be able to shoot under sentries for a little time? |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam |
Posted - 2009.05.20 13:02:00 - [ 36]
all this talk of Sniper HACs and no love for the Cerb? 380-420 dps out to 245km, hello? Course it takes anything up to 22 seconds for the missiles to hit, and not nearly as good at frig popping as a Muninn/Zealot/Eagle, but when those missiles hit...  |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE |
Posted - 2009.05.20 13:15:00 - [ 37]
Edited by: Misanth on 20/05/2009 13:21:09 Originally by: Karad Forsky
Zealots are the most popular HACs in sniper-HAC gangs for a reason, but Munnins do have 2 valuable advantages.
1) They do explosive damage.
2) They have better shield resists.
Yes the Zealot is a 'better' ship overall but Munnins are much easier to RR. And since Sniper-HAC gangs with Scimitar support are FOTM right now, this is pretty valuable.
3) They have utility highs 4) They have drones ..which is pretty "useless" while sniping, but it adds a crapton of survivability. Try flying that Zealot you love to praise so much, when you get a frigate-hull ship in close, tackling you. I'd kill for some drones or a utility high on my Zealot. Admittedly the Z is great while firing at given range, but there's more to it in many combat situations. Originally by: Liang Nuren
Quote:
Zealot is op , hopefully devs will do something about it.
I'd rather they fix the other range HACs, because the Zealot is one of the few that are really worth flying over their Tier 2 BC counterparts.
That's the key imho. Sacriledge and Ishtars are great as well, nice allround since they can fill multipurpose roles, the Cerb is a one-liner (just like the Zealot tbh) but good at what it does. The rest really could use some love. |
Murtific
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2009.05.20 13:54:00 - [ 38]
Originally by: Caius Sivaris
Originally by: Murtific
Zealots do not need a buffer if you have a good FC
Munins do not need a buffer if you have a good FC
Eagles do not need a buffer if you have a good FC
Deimos' do not need a buffer if you have a good FC
Ever been at a hostile POS? Isn't it nice to be able to shoot under sentries for a little time?
Hit and Run tactics are better suited, especially if your ship class involves paper. |
Murtific
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2009.05.20 13:56:00 - [ 39]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
all this talk of Sniper HACs and no love for the Cerb? 380-420 dps out to 245km, hello? Course it takes anything up to 22 seconds for the missiles to hit, and not nearly as good at frig popping as a Muninn/Zealot/Eagle, but when those missiles hit...
Instant Damage. Instant Damage. Instant Damage. I'm max skilled cerb pilot and I will still take my lvl 5 skills worth of zealot any day over a cerb these days. cerbs are good for damps..... |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam |
Posted - 2009.05.20 14:51:00 - [ 40]
|
ry ry
Heroes.
Merciless. |
Posted - 2009.05.20 14:57:00 - [ 41]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
Auto Targeting System II
really? |
ry ry
Heroes.
Merciless. |
Posted - 2009.05.20 14:59:00 - [ 42]
Edited by: ry ry on 20/05/2009 14:59:32
for what it's worth, the hurricane is perfect, but whilst the muninn is **** in may ways is the only non-bs minmatar ship capable of delivering high alpha at extreme ranges.
the only reason to fly it over a cane is it's range and (relative) agility. |
Naim Obeji
Shiva
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2009.05.20 17:13:00 - [ 43]
Edited by: Naim Obeji on 20/05/2009 17:27:45
My two favorite ships to fly as a mostly Minmatar specialized pilot are the Muninn and Sleipnir.
That said, the problem with the Muninn is the problem with artillery. The magazines are too small, the RoF too slow, the tracking too poor and I think the Tremor nerf and the script change look a lot of lustre out of flying this once magnificent sniper. It used to be THE sniping HAC, now it's a poor second to the Zealot and not a lot better than the Eagle which out-ranges it.
I can't help but think even the modest buff of increasing the magazine size would help at least a little bit...for artillery of all sizes.
The problems with artillery notwithstanding, the muninn is always "all gank, no tank." You haven't the slots or the grid to do anything with it. If you start getting shot at, it's a race to get yourself out of there before your shields (with those "great resists") are gone and your armor and hull evaporate.
It's still a serviceable ship, but it used to be better. It was never overpowered, so the nerfs that affected it were kind of troubling to me. |
Lindsay Logan |
Posted - 2009.05.20 17:47:00 - [ 44]
Imo, Munin got a bit too short range.
[Muninn, New Setup 3]
Power Diagnostic System II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Sensor Booster II
Large Shield Extender II
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Tremor M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Tremor M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Tremor M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Tremor M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Tremor M
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile
Projectile Locus Coordinator I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Hornet EC-300 x5
I'd want this to hit a bit further, but it can't. It do however perma the MWD form the PDU II alone, so its kinda nifty that way.
Imo, its better then the Eagle, so I don't get your whines :P |
Thercon Jair
Minmatar
Nex Exercitus
Raiden. |
Posted - 2009.05.20 18:21:00 - [ 45]
I have no problem with the Muninn. I get it to 106km optimal, and that's enough in a sniper HAC gang.
The DPS isn't so bad either, since projectile ammunition has a smaller damage falloff on higher range ammo, unlike other races.
And I view the drones and missiles as a plus. Get one inty in between that sniper HACs and try to hit it with your nice beams. You won't be able to get it killed. The Muninn can deal with this threat. |
Naim Obeji
Shiva
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2009.05.20 18:37:00 - [ 46]
Yep...all good points and that's precisely what I do with those two extra high slots and the drone bay--- standard missiles and warrior IIs. It's not something you use that often, but when you need it, its there.
I think my point still stands that the ship has been nerfed a bit and it suffers from the well-known problems that artillery has (most notably, I think, the tiny magazines). I don't think it's asking too much to at least see that increased. It will help the damage over time, at least, and not see you running out of ammo in your guns just as you start to break through on your target.
|
Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority |
Posted - 2009.05.20 19:52:00 - [ 47]
Muninn is the second best, all-around sniping HAC imho, way better than the Eagle, and slightly behind Zealot... Yes, the zealot is very good, boosting the highest DPS of em all and excellent range, tho the Muninn boosts the highest alpha, and a tad better all-around dmg type. The highest volley dmg has a better chance to insta-pop (or "aplha") small targets, and some times even those 2.5 sec of RoF the Zealot gets are not available for other ships to catch up. Also the drones and the utility highs on those muninns do provide sufficient dps to fend off un-supported enemy tacklers that could probably "solo" Beam Zealots with ease. Liang does have a strong point with the artie-cane, wich locks faster than both Zealots and Muninns (as long as you fit an LSE on those) and boosts higher alpha strike, tho with worse tracking and optimal... Since the latest patch, things changed, IMHO in favour of the sniping HACs over the Cane (or the Sleip if you are wealthy enough - YARRR): align times are worse on all frigs (but the mighty SBs  ) so Zealots might get that extra volley and Munnins caught up a tad against the Cane, simply cause BCs align a lot worse now...losing both 30ish km range (thus being 30k closer to fast tackle) and requiring crusial extra seconds to warp out, artie canes now need some serious BM preparations in order to "provide" the goods in hit-n-run situations. |
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