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CCP Nozh


C C P
Posted - 2009.03.16 13:13:00 - [1]
 

So, Apocrypha is out with 3 subsystems per category, we're now starting our next development cycle where we'll look at the fourth variation. There are already tons of good ideas floating around at the office, but before we proceed we'd like to hear your ideas.

What bonuses would you like to see on the fourth subsystems?
-What other subsystems would you use it with?
-How does is it differ from the other choices?
-Drawbacks when fitted, if any?

Please keep the thread clean and stay on topic.

Update on page 4

IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
Posted - 2009.03.16 13:49:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: IceAero on 18/03/2009 22:32:21
FINALLY COMPLETE (<3 you Nozh)

Please leave comments.

FIRST: Legion Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector needs 4 turrets, not 3. Or make it a 12.5% Bonus to drone dmg.

Onto the subsystems...

[These are more 'advanced' subsystems, they should be more expensive]








Electronic Subsystems #4 (All Races)
Electronic Subsystem Skill Bonus:
-98% to -100% reduced CPU need for cloaking device/level
CANNOT Fit covert cynosural field generators, but CAN use covert jump portal.

DIFFERENT SENSOR TYPE, very covert =D

3 Mid
1 Low
****
4 Mid (Legion)

(With no high slot, you're forced to drop a turret/launcher to fit the cloak)









Propulsion Subsystems #4 (All Races)
Propulsion Subsystem Skill Bonus:
Multiplies the cloaked velocity by 150%/level (T3 ships are slow, let's aim for 500m/s cloaked with lvl5)

1 Low
****
1 Medium (Proteus)










Defensive Subsystem #4 should reflect sleeper technology to a higher degree.

Also, NO ONE will fit a remote rep on subsystem #1, because their range is 6km! That's useless,get rid of that bonus and turn the high slot it gives into a low slot (Legion, Proteus) and a mid slot (Loki, Tengu)

I know what you had in mind, but THIS is the way to do it:

Defensive Subsystems #4 (Loki, Tengu)
Defensive Subsystem Skill Bonus:
150% Bonus to Shield Transport range (15km,19km,26km,36km,51km)
10% bonus to shield transporter effectiveness/level

1 High
2 Mid


Defensive Subsystems #4 (Proteus, Legion)
Defensive Subsystem Skill Bonus:
150% Bonus to Remote Armor Repair System range (15km,19km,26km,36km,51km)
10% bonus to remote armor repair system effectiveness/level

1 High
2 Low

(NOTE: This means: You can fit one remote rep, and you can fit a second if you want to drop a gun/launcher, but since you're not a logistics ship and you don't get a cap usage bonus, you'll have a very hard time running more than just 1 even with engineering subsystem 4, see below!)










Legion Offensive Subsystem #4
5% Bonus to Heavy Assault Missile Damage/level
5% bonus to Heavy Assault Launcher rof/level
2% bonus to all armor resistances/level (AND MAKE THE WHOLE SHIP BLACK Cool)


50m3 dronebay, 25mbits bandwidth

+5 Launchers (CCP you need to make the existing Amarr engineering subsystems give +1 launcher )
5 Highs
1 Low

Proteus Offensive Subsystem #4
10% bonus to drone damage/level
7.5% bonus to drone hp/level
+5km drone control range /level


175 m3 dronebay, 100mbits bandwidth

2 High
1 Mid
1 Low

Tengu Offensive Subsystem #4 (A small ship killer!)
12.5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level
10% Bonus to missile velocity/level
10% Bonus to explosion velocity/level


20m3 dronebay, 20bmits bandwidth

+5 Launchers
5 High
1 Mid

Loki Offensive Subsystem 4 (Good idea Lumy)
7.5% bonus to medium projectile turret rate of fire per level
10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level


25 m3 dronebay, 25mbits bandwidth

+4 turret
4 high slots
1 med slot
1 low slot








The more I think about these Engineering subsystems, the more undecided I become. I've taken off the slot suggestions, but I'm sure of the bonuses!

Legion Engineering Subsystem 4
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair and Armor Repairer capacitor use/level
+1 Turret/Launcher

Proteus Engineering Subsystem 4
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repair and Armor Repairer capacitor use/level
+1 Turret/Launcher

Tengu Engineering Subsystem 4
5% reduction in Shield Transport and Shield Booster capacitor use/level
+1 Turret/Launcher

Loki Engineering Subsystem 4
[i]5% reduction in Shield Transport and Shield Booster capacitor use/level

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.03.16 14:27:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Tarminic on 16/03/2009 14:54:18
Writing up ideas now, watch this space...

Okay, here's some things that I've come up with so far:

1. Cross-racial Weapon Systems
Bonuses for the "allied" empire's weapon systems, i.e. loki gets drone and/or hybrid bonuses, proteus gets a projectile bonus, etc

2. Battleship-class Weapons
Fitting bonuses for battleship-sized weapons to bring them down to cruiser fittings, with the caveat that there are no damage bonuses to said weapons.

3. Mini-Profession/non-combat Components
Instead of hardcore weapon bonuses, reduction of high-slots in favor of bonuses to archeology/salvage/hacking/probing systems or hell, even mining bonuses. Laughing

4. Bomb Launchers Subsystems
You know you want it. Twisted Evil

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.03.16 14:37:00 - [4]
 

Propulsion subsystem (All races):
Multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level.
1 high slot (for cloak obviously)

Electronics subsystem (All races):
-75% to -100% targeting delay after decloaking per level.
Allows to use covert jump portal.
3 med and 1 low slots (or other combination?)

Legion offensive:
5 high slots
1 low slot
5 launcher hardpoint
25 mbit/sec drone bandwidth
50 m3 drone capacity
7.5% heavy assault missile rate of fire per level
10% heavy assault missile velocity per level

IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
Posted - 2009.03.16 14:45:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: IceAero on 16/03/2009 15:30:40
Edited by: IceAero on 16/03/2009 14:54:28
Edited by: IceAero on 16/03/2009 14:45:30
Originally by: Lumy
Propulsion subsystem (All races):
Multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level.
1 high slot (for cloak obviously)

Electronics subsystem (All races):
-75% to -100% targeting delay after decloaking per level.
Allows to use covert jump portal.
3 med and 1 low slots (or other combination?)




That's my idea too!!! I'm glad we agree...


Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.16 14:52:00 - [6]
 

hell, I'll give you four AND five.

Tengu:
Electronics: probe scanning strength or Siege warfare link use +bonus
Defense: Increased shield recharge rate or reduced shield booster cap use.
Engineering: reduced powergrid and cap cost for oversized remote reppers or increased energy transfer amount (Not both!)
Offense: hybrid damage+tracking or missile kinetic damage+missile explosion velocity and radius
Propulsion: 5% speed per level or reduction in ship mass per level

Loki:
Electronics: target painter effectiveness or skirmish warfare links
Defense: Shield HP or armour HP
Engineering: reduced powergrid and cap cost for oversized remote reppers or increased energy transfer amount (Not both!)
Offense: missile explosive damage+missile explosion velocity and radius or missile explosive damage+ROF
Propulsion: reduced MWD sig radius increase or reduced MWD cap penalty.

Legion
Electronics: Siege warfare link or tracking disruptor effectiveness+range
Defense: Armour HP or drone HP and damage
Engineering: reduced powergrid and cap cost for oversized remote reppers or increased energy transfer amount
Offense: missile EM damage+missile explosion velocity and radius or missile EM damage+ROF
Propulsion: MWD cap penalty or ship agility

Proteus
Electronics: Probe strength or web range
Defense: Armour HP or reduced armour rep cap use
Engineering: reduced powergrid and cap cost for oversized remote reppers or increased energy transfer amount
Offense: hybrid damage+tracking or hybrid damage+ROF
Propulsion: AB speed bonus or Drone MWD speed and range

Basically, the three big things I'd like are warfare links (one per ship, max), missile explosion velocity and radius bonuses (not so hot for cruiser-on-cruiser combat, but frigates beware!) and expanding the potential of tech 3 for use as logistics platforms without overshadowing actual logistics ships.

here's hoping at least one of them makes it in Cool

Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
Posted - 2009.03.16 14:57:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Lumy

Legion offensive:
5 high slots
1 low slot
5 launcher hardpoint
25 mbit/sec drone bandwidth
50 m3 drone capacity
7.5% heavy assault missile rate of fire per level
10% heavy assault missile velocity per level

I guess you want to eat your cake Wink(amarr victor Confused)


electronics subsystems for the other ewar (at least for all races but caldari, caladari get nothing!)

subsystems that give abilities such as the ability to fit bubble launcher or the hictor's thingy, blackops abilities(a propulsion system?)

Engineering subsystem(all races):
shield transfer/remote repper capacitor use reduction for respective races, with a corresponding reduction in firepower(negative bonuses to hardpoints/drone stuff).

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2009.03.16 15:12:00 - [8]
 

if each electronic subsystem ADDED another race's sensor type it would go some way to making t3 ships better when being falcon'd, for example the 4'th subsystem would give minmatar some magnometric magnetometric sensor aswell as their ladar, and the amarr one would get some gravimetric aswell as their radar, making them less vulnerable to racial jamming

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.16 15:27:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Gneeznow
if each electronic subsystem ADDED another race's sensor type it would go some way to making t3 ships better when being falcon'd, for example the 4'th subsystem would give minmatar some magnometric magnetometric sensor aswell as their ladar, and the amarr one would get some gravimetric aswell as their radar, making them less vulnerable to racial jamming


There's already a sensor strength subsytem, what more do we need? Making them falcon-proof would be taking things a step too far.

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.03.16 15:31:00 - [10]
 

Proteus offensive subsystem:
(drone sniper)
5 high slots
1 low slot
3 turret
100 (or 125?) mbit/sec drone bandwidth (higher bandwidth because no damage bonus)
200 m3 drone capacity
7.5% sentry drone tracking speed per level
10% sentry drone optimal range per level
7.5% sentry drone hitpoints per level

Finnroth
The Guardian Agency
Posted - 2009.03.16 15:32:00 - [11]
 

I believe what he means ist what we already had on sisi for a while. Standard Sensor strength (something between 17-20) but instead of all the way ladar all kinds of sensors. This makes it effectivly harder to guess which type you posses and in return makes the ships alot more ECM proof.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.03.16 15:46:00 - [12]
 

Electronics:

Allow fitting of CovOps cloak IIs, or if you don't want to do that, remove sensor recalibration time for Improved Cloak IIs **IN ADDITION TO REMOVING THE SCAN RESOLUTION PENALTY**.

Offense:

Missile bonused subsystems for the Proteus and Legion, drone bonused systems for the Tengu and Loki.

Defense:

75% resistance to all cap warfare (nos/neuts).

Engineering:

Installs jump drive, allowed to jump to Covert Cynos.

Propulsion:

Reduced mass per level.

With the last minute changes to the subsystems right before they were delivered to TQ the T3 ships' slot layouts and bonuses are now pretty boring. Of all the possible combinations only two or three per ship are even remotely viable with all the rest being total crap.

The basic three subsystems need to be improved as well as the fourth and fifth being added.

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2009.03.16 16:16:00 - [13]
 

Mining Bonuses, and ability to fit strip miners ;-)

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.03.16 16:16:00 - [14]
 

Sensor types of racial allies, as we had on Test for a while, would be very nice. E.g., the Tengu gets an option for Radar sensors, the Loki gets an option for magnetometric, etc.

Covops cloak will not work. It's far, far too powerful a mod. It could break the strategic cruiser class by making it stupid to fit any other electronics subsystem, and the overlap with Force Recons would be very difficult to balance. OTOH, bonuses to cloaked speed, sensor recalibration time and scan res when using a "normal" cloak would be viable.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.16 16:20:00 - [15]
 

For the Legion would be Khanid-Type Subsystem a good thing, with Bonuses for HAMs.

Another idea might be, to create something a like an Ion Frigate from the Homeworld Series. A Module that allows to effectivly use an oversized weapon system in a small Hull at the cost of defense and maneuverabilty. Perhaps give them the ability to fit a single XL weapon on their Hull.Razz

Another idea would be, to give the T3 Ships an Electronics Subsystem that gives extended Cargo and an in-space refit option for ships, similar to the ability Carriers have.



Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.03.16 17:19:00 - [16]
 

Engineering subsystem:
Tengu, Loki:
X% reduction in Shield Transport and Shield Booster capacitor use per level
Legion, Proteus:
X% reduction in Remote Armor Repair and Armor Repairer capacitor use per level

where X is somewhere between 5% to 10%.

Takeshi Yamato
Posted - 2009.03.16 17:24:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Takeshi Yamato on 16/03/2009 17:24:21
Quote:
What bonuses would you like to see on the fourth subsystems?


For the Legion
- Offensive subsystem: khanid style heavy assault missile bonus
- Electronics: tracking disruptor bonus, 2 med, 1 low

In general
- Engineering: +20% cap booster amount per level, cap transfer range/strength bonus
- Propulsion: mwd and afterburner mass penality reduction
- Electronics: stasis webifier strength
- Electronics: reduction in delay after uncloaking
- Defensive subsystem: passive armor repair

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.03.16 17:38:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Lumy on 16/03/2009 17:55:37
Loki offensive subsystem:
4 high slots
1 med slot
1 low slot
4 turret
25 mbit/sec drone bandwidth (?)
25 m3 drone capacity (?)
7.5% bonus to medium projectile turret rate of fire per level
10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level
7.5% bonus to medium projectile turret tracking per level (maybe overkill?)

Edit: Reduced amount of high slots and turrets. Velocity factor might be quite powerful bonus.

El Yatta
0utbreak
Posted - 2009.03.16 17:46:00 - [19]
 

-Missile subsystem for Proteus and Legion (offensive)
-Drone subsystem for Tengu and Loki (offensive)

-PLEASE make new subsystems have different slots from existing ones!

-Need to be able to use a subsystem to switch around the "racial" mid/low - e.g. atm I cant get a midslot-heavy, few-low Proteus, yet I can fly a Lachesis that does just that!
Example - Proteus subsystem, engineering. -2 Lows, +3 mids. Vice versa for Tengu.

-Remote repair range and cap use (engineering).

-Nos/neut resistance (defensive)

-Web strength (electronic)

-Off-racial tanking (armor resists tengu defensive)


Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.03.16 18:28:00 - [20]
 

And last one of offensive subsystems

Tengu offensive subsystem:
5 high slots
1 med slot
5 missile
10% bonus to Heavy, Heavy Assault and Assault missile launcher damage per level
5% bonus to light missile, heavy and heavy assault explosion velocity per level and eduction in explosion radius
10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity per level

Already mentioned above, but posting because of:
1. want to have full set
2. (imho) more reasonable slot layout and numbers

Defensive subsystems:
Loki, Tengu:
150% Bonus to Shield Transport range (T2: 15km, 24km, 33km, 42km, 51km)
10% bonus to shield transporter effectiveness per level
1 high slot
1 med slot

Legion, Proteus
150% Bonus to Remote Armor Repair System range (T2: 15km, 24km, 33km, 42km, 51km)
10% bonus to remote armor repair system effectiveness per level
1 high slot
1 low slot

Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
Bloody Amarr's
Posted - 2009.03.16 18:49:00 - [21]
 

Warfare links
diffrent type of sensor like magneto for amarr
drone hulls for caldari,amar,minmatar
another race ew bonuses painter for caldari, ecm for minmatar and such
covert ops hulls

Spazz21
Rage For Order
Nihil-Obstat
Posted - 2009.03.16 18:50:00 - [22]
 

I would like to see something for the Industrialists, currently its all designed for combat,so really it doesn't change up the usefulness too much, just usefulness in combat only. However, if we had parts that could rival the other ships, that would be great.

I don't know about the stats specificly, but just some brain storming be nice to see for something like:
Electronic Systems: Increase Warp stability and decreases cargo size.
Defense Systems: Increase in cargo Size, resistance, additional Turret Slot/s
Offensive Systems: Inc cargo, Turret slots, Mining Laser bonus.
Engineer: Increase CPU/Decrease CPU needs from Mining Laser with Harvesting bonus.
Propulsion: Idk lol

Just something along that idea would be great so can mix it up so someone can still mine sufficiently and not worry about rats much or something, yet don't want to make ships like transports completely useless, but something that can mine between a BS(with uppgrades and such) but still less then a Hulk and not have to jetcan or warp back to station every 3mins. Maybe have a special secured Jet can only T3 can make? Size of a normal jet can but have password to prevent flippers and still have the 2hr timer on them.

Basically I want stuff that I can mix it up and do other stuff with. If I wanted an all out combat ship, I would just get a HAC or a BS, no point in getting a T3 Ship if all the parts are going to be similar to that of a HAC. As for the Large Weapons idea, that is also a great idea since you got the Stealth Bomber, then having a cruiser that can use large weapons with smaller signature rating would be neat too.

IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
Posted - 2009.03.16 19:11:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Lumy


Already mentioned above, but posting because of:
1. want to have full set
2. (imho) more reasonable slot layout and numbers




Think about this for a second.

You're taking away the hp/resist/tanking bonus and adding something that only helps out in a a t3-specific gang.

I think the 2 low or 2 mid slots are balanced, they won't even make up for the loss of the bonus.

Having 1 low/ 1 mid for the defensive subsystems will make the ships a good bit weaker than they are now.

Lijhal
Posted - 2009.03.16 19:22:00 - [24]
 

as some people here posted already:

tengu & loki
offensive: 5% medium turret damage, 10% bonus to drone damage, 7.5% bonus to drone hitpoints per level
5 high / 1 med / 0 low ; 100m3 drone bay / 75Mbit/sec ; 3 turret / 0 missile hardpoints

defensive: 10% bonus to armor hitpoints per level
0 high / -1 med / 3 low ; 3550 armor HP

engineering: 5% shield booster & armor repairer energy consumtion reduction per level
1 high / 1 med / 1 low

electronic: 5% signature reduction per level
0 high / 2 med / 2 low

vica versa for proteus & legion

IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
Posted - 2009.03.16 19:32:00 - [25]
 

OK everyone, my top post is complete with the best ideas I can come up with for making T3 the best thing that ever happened to this game :)

Please give me some feedback!

Uzume Ame
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.16 19:41:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus


With the last minute changes to the subsystems right before they were delivered to TQ the T3 ships' slot layouts and bonuses are now pretty boring. Of all the possible combinations only two or three per ship are even remotely viable with all the rest being total crap.

The basic three subsystems need to be improved as well as the fourth and fifth being added.


This. I would like to know someday the rationale for releasing the subsytems as they're, now T3 is nothing but glorified T2 ships which will cost much more, have SP sink, and with soem terrible useless bonuses/subsystems. Stop adding and fix stuff damnit (the iteration before last minute changes was just much better, I still don't get the changes).

As for the topic, for a change what about doing soemthing different/not boring:
- Bonus that somehow give you ability to adapt your ship to tactical enviorenments in whole. Probably would requiere not lazy programming so probably is not a possibility, oh welll...

/rant

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.03.16 19:58:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: IceAero
OK everyone, my top post is complete with the best ideas I can come up with for making T3 the best thing that ever happened to this game :)

Please give me some feedback!

Ok, me being all negative:

1. You are being too generous with slot layout. I think the idea is max 15 slots total for cruiser hulls. Combination of your subsystems are giving 3 more (going to BC territory).
2. Covops cloak - Just NO. Sorry, this is overkill.
3. Your Proteus offensive = Drone Synthesis Projector on steroids - Not really original.
4. Tengu offensive - Lacking on damage department. Compared to Accelerated Ejection Bay. 7.5% ROF just alone gives 1.6x all dmg (2.0x kinetic) at level V vs 1.375x kinetic only.

IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
Posted - 2009.03.16 20:21:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Lumy
Originally by: IceAero
OK everyone, my top post is complete with the best ideas I can come up with for making T3 the best thing that ever happened to this game :)

Please give me some feedback!

Ok, me being all negative:

1. You are being too generous with slot layout. I think the idea is max 15 slots total for cruiser hulls. Combination of your subsystems are giving 3 more (going to BC territory).
2. Covops cloak - Just NO. Sorry, this is overkill.
3. Your Proteus offensive = Drone Synthesis Projector on steroids - Not really original.
4. Tengu offensive - Lacking on damage department. Compared to Accelerated Ejection Bay. 7.5% ROF just alone gives 1.6x all dmg (2.0x kinetic) at level V vs 1.375x kinetic only.


1)

a] The idea behind the Engineering Subsystem #4 is that it IS BC-sized, so that's why it adds 1 low or mid slot and adds mass/signature. I also justify this addition of a slot by saying it has no bonuses to powergrid or cap/caprecharge!

b] The Defensive subsystem 4 adds a high slot, so you can add 1 remote rep without losing a turret, considering it doesn't have any actual bonuses to hp/resists/tanking I believe this high slot balances that out.

c] The Electronic/Propulsion combination always adds 1 high slot, nothing else. But maybe more balanced would be NOT to have it add a high slot, so you must drop a turret or launcher to fit your cloak. I think I like this idea, I've made the change.

2) People really want this, it seems, and I like it as well. I can see it being over powered. See my previous line.

3) True, but CCP though the Drone Synthesis Projector should be a mix drone/hybrid damage platform, which is cool for close range work where 3 blasters + 4 heavy drones will be a lot of damage, but I thought 5 heavy drones without the turrets should be an option.

4) Agreed, I forgot to go back and look at this, as I was wondering about the difference myself. I want this subsystem to do less damage but hit smaller ships a lot harder. 7.5% dmg bonus = 1.44x kinetic. 12.5% = 1.8x kinetic. So I've changed it to 12.5% damage bonus

Arushia
Nova Labs
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2009.03.16 20:42:00 - [29]
 

Proteus Electronics - Drone Link Augmentation
+5km drone control range per level
400 CPU
0 Highslots
2 Midslots
1 Lowslot
+25 mbit//s bandwidth
+50 m^3 drone bay

Target range/resolution/strength: whatever

This would let it finally compete with the Ishtar for Drone DPS, at the cost of a slot.

IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
Posted - 2009.03.16 21:10:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Arushia
Proteus Electronics - Drone Link Augmentation
+5km drone control range per level
400 CPU
0 Highslots
2 Midslots
1 Lowslot
+25 mbit//s bandwidth
+50 m^3 drone bay

Target range/resolution/strength: whatever

This would let it finally compete with the Ishtar for Drone DPS, at the cost of a slot.



I like your idea about the drone control range, I added it to my post, and took away a high slot. Basically forcing-fit a drone range augmenter.

However, you can't have your offensive subsystem adding no high slots, or else you could have 0 high slots, and that just doesn't fly.


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