| Author |
Topic |
Vanessa Vernandez
Interstellar Management Acadamy
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 15:50:00 - [ 121]
 Originally by: Irongut
Isk is not your only reward. Have you considered that exploring W-space and fighting targets that pose more of a challenge might be more fun? It is a game after all.
this! but that the notions "fun" and "challenge" are foreign words for someone who runs missions all day long to get an optimal ISK/hour ratio ... ah welp ...  |
Taius Pax |
Posted - 2009.03.12 15:51:00 - [ 122]
Edited by: Taius Pax on 12/03/2009 15:51:39The only fail in wormholes is this thread.  |
H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits Academy
The Gurlstas Associates |
Posted - 2009.03.12 15:54:00 - [ 123]
|
baltec1 |
Posted - 2009.03.12 15:58:00 - [ 124]
On the little adventure I went on my group got well over 100 mil in stuff in a short amount of time. Unfortunatly the sleepers didnt like us making money out of them and poped the ship with the booty after it accidently warped with the main fleet. I love this game  |
Esmenet
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:05:00 - [ 125]
|
iudex |
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:06:00 - [ 126]
I have to agree with Atika T here. T3 cruisers have an equal performance like T1 battlecruisers. They can be specialised a little more towards tanking or speed, but from what I've seen on Sisi, they don't have a big advantage over T2 cruisers and are inferior to command ships. That's why hardly anyone will pay for them more than for a command ship. No one is going to pay hundreds of millions for a T3 cruiser.
This were completely different if there were T3 battlecruisers or T3 battleships.
Highsec missionrunners are willing to pay over 3 billion for a single module (Gist X-Type XL Shield Booster), offer them a battleship that is slightly better than a Golem or a Navy Raven and there are no limits of what you can demand. If it's the "best thing" for something, the price is not capped by a price of something that is better, and you have a price made by supply and demand. T3 cruiser price is capped by commandships or some T2 cruisers for example, since they are equal or better than T3 cruisers (economists are calling this substitute goods).
And this price limit then determines the profitability of the Sleeper loot industry.
This is the point that many people fail to see who say price is only made by players. |
Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative |
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:13:00 - [ 127]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Vanessa Vernandez
Originally by: Irongut
Isk is not your only reward. Have you considered that exploring W-space and fighting targets that pose more of a challenge might be more fun? It is a game after all.
this!
but that the notions "fun" and "challenge" are foreign words for someone who runs missions all day long to get an optimal ISK/hour ratio ... ah welp ...
"Fun" and "Challenge" last for a few days when its new and shiny.
For some. Not everybody is the same. Many players will continue to participate in fun and challenge even after their buddies of the short attention spans are bored out of their minds. W-space will continue to fulfill the enjoyments and pleasures of a certain, probably wide, portion of the playerbase for as long as they are around. Players STILL live and fly in losec. Yes, it's had a lot of nerfs and changes to it which has decreased it's popularity, but there are still many players who love it. I have no interest in many parts of EvE, believe it or not. I could give a **** less about industry or trading, beyond getting money for what I sell. I don't give a crap about nulsec, as I find the politicking and conquest to be boring. Does this mean that, because *I* don't like these things and see no use for them, that others don't? Or that they are useless? Or that they will fail? That's what many are trying to convey to the Op. Just because YOU don't like or use something, doesn't mean others don't. Isk and the magical carrots aren't the only thing that drive the EvE population. Some seek the adventure of finding what other's haven't, or the risk, or the community, etc, etc. Assuming that you (figurative you, not specific, Esmenet) are the majority, and the MAJORITY of players believe like you? That's where most arguments like this fail. Not only is that arrogant, it's more often false. And even in the times it's correct? The majority of American's like WoW, McDonalds, Starbucks, Wal-Mart and American Idol. This doesn't mean that liking mainstream garbage is right ... or wrong, even. Just another way of living. |
Fulbert
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:13:00 - [ 128]
Originally by: Hobgoblin ll
Why shall we do sleepers and risk our ships in 0.0 security space, when we can make more isk in 0.5 without probing and under concord protection ?
And what will you buy with your isks? When people will have enough money to pay 300mil a T3 cruiser, then W-space will become profitable. |
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore |
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:25:00 - [ 129]
yeah, factional warfare will fail too, because you can make more money mission grinding.
because EVERY SINGLE PLAYER is as boring and horrible as the op and the people who agree with him are. |
Jim McGregor |
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:35:00 - [ 130]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 12/03/2009 16:37:32I havent tried this, but ccp always prenerfs everything and then tries to boost it a bit when it doesnt become popular. That way, they have found where the ratio is between bother vs reward without putting it too high initially. Its good for avoiding making something too profitable so it hurts the market, but for a player, it can be fun to find something really profitable and abuse it for a short while until it becomes discovered and fixed. I used to run very profitable trade routes until it got "fixed" and then it wasnt fun anymore (for me).  |
CCP Ytterbium
 |
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:42:00 - [ 131]
I cannot comment about Tech3 possible usefulness in theoretical situations if X and Z conditions are met or if/and/why not/when all the planets of the solar system are perfectly aligned to summon the divine power of the Spaghetti Monster, because that is not what I am responsible of. I belong to the team taking care of the Sleepers, so I will share my thoughts with you on this matter. Of course, you are concerned about the profitability of killing Sleepers in the first place in W-space, which is understandable. Profitability depends on difficulty, reward and time involved in the process. Rewards on the Sleepers has been studied before the release, despite what may be painted here, and thinking tech3 components are the only ISK value output you receive for destroying them is just incorrect; don’t ask, you will have to find that out by yourselves  . Difficulty is highly linked with Sleeper capabilities, time needed to kill them and also tempers reward in terms of player casualties. As explained before, some Sleeper encounters may be done solo, others require a small gang or even a fleet; rewards are proportionally varying on such cases, so gangs will not be shafted by attempting a harder site over a solo pilot. It is expected for players to face heavy losses at the time being, precisely because the unknown is hazardous. I am totally confident in player abilities to adapt to the Sleepers with time, as this kind of situation already happened in the past when we released new NPC types. Look how easily these old NPCs are being dispatched now. Look at level4-5 missions, look at asteroid belt battleships when they were first introduced. It is normal to struggle against novelty. But even now, we already noticed creative and effective ship setups being used to face Sleepers. For that is the whole point of Apocrypha on this PvE aspect. That is where the challenge lies, to research, analyze, adapt yourselves to face and destroy the Sleeper with minimal losses. And no matter which kind of AI our NPCs may have, players will always have the upper hand in the end, because you all come up with a very efficient high-slot module named “brain” which will allow you to adjust your ship setups and tactics the more you get to know them. Should I remind you all that we are only on the second day after the expansion release? Did you seriously expect to be able to start slaughtering Sleepers without adapating first? No matter what the difficulty is, Sleepers bring feelings in PvE situations which were needed: fun, challenge, adaptability. That alone is the reward for some people and I also believe the fact of achieving hard to impossible odds against NPCs has been lacking for too long. I am aware I forget PvP engagements that may disrupt this activity, but you were mainly worried about Sleeper difficulty and thus I am responding to that. Of course, the whole situation may need to be tweaked with time; due to the sheer complexity and richness of the game, we unfortunately cannot foresee everything. Especially not with this release, which remains the most ambitious expansion we brought to you so far. So yes, if we estimate any changes are needed we will intervene, for we are watching. But in all cases, please do not assume, get the facts  . |
Korrakas
Caldari
Legion of Ascension
Beyond Ascension |
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:42:00 - [ 132]
Edited by: Korrakas on 12/03/2009 16:43:45I like Akita, she used to be a genius (and still is if you wade through the bitterness and mindless caluclation of how much you can earn in a L4 which is one of the most disgustingly boring grinds I have had the displeasure to do), heck she even helped me to decide between a mission-running Rokh and Raven but still her posting has taken a bitter nosedive sine that "Rise and Fall of EVE Online" thread by Rells....  Now on teh topic of WH, which I too thought were going to wear off after the first few weeks until I went in one and realised that it was itself perfect, they had nailed team exploration (and solo in hi-sec). The completely new and ungovernable systems with tremendously more valuable loot compared to L4 missioneering (ofcourse this depends on the wormhole). The loot dropped will gain profitability over time (possibly by next year as it is a completley new level of ship class). Low and nullsec WH will end up being very profitable once the infrastructure is set up by players. The crucial part is to be prepared to explore wormholes and make those T3 cruisers. Becuase once they gain pace they will become as integral to EVE as T2 and subsequently be expanded as CCP sees they are of major intrest to the players. TL;DR Screw the haters  |
Esmenet
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:43:00 - [ 133]
Originally by: Ruze
Assuming that you (figurative you, not specific, Esmenet) are the majority, and the MAJORITY of players believe like you? That's where most arguments like this fail. Not only is that arrogant, it's more often false. And even in the times it's correct?
Judging from my time playing EVE most eve players dont take risks. And the ones that do prefer to shoot other players, not npc's. Sure there are probably some that still keeps at it, but i predict many whine topics about risk and the reward of wormhole space soon enough. So unless players find some way to minimise risk (or ccp nerfs it), and get big profits (or ccp increases it) i expect that the 2500 w-space systems will be fairly empty soon. |
Frances Ducoir
Gallente
Koshaku
Dark Syndicate. |
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:55:00 - [ 134]
|
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore |
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:57:00 - [ 135]
Originally by: Esmenet
Judging from my time playing EVE most eve players dont take risks. And the ones that do prefer to shoot other players, not npc's. Sure there are probably some that still keeps at it, but i predict many whine topics about risk and the reward of wormhole space soon enough. So unless players find some way to minimise risk (or ccp nerfs it), and get big profits (or ccp increases it) i expect that the 2500 w-space systems will be fairly empty soon.
which is clearly why no one lives in 0.0 or pvps. |
Sobic
The Flaming Sideburn's
Waterboard |
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:59:00 - [ 136]
Quote:
you all come up with a very efficient high-slot module named “brain” which will allow you to adjust your ship setups and tactics the more you get to know them
The DEV hits a home run, unfortunately there are soooo many "Educated idiots" out there it's amazing civilization hasn't collapsed yet. The whining from this patch is epic and just hysterical. I'll play in W-space prob forever, just because of the random player interaction. EVE was getting WAY to predictable depending on what area of space you lived in. |
Jalum Krayal |
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:01:00 - [ 137]
Originally by: Frances Ducoir
tell!!!! 
Unfortunately, he's referring to either the normal ore you can mine in WHs or the sleeper trade goods that sleepers drop that NPCs are buying. The buy order prices for those trade goods are pretty meh, if memory serves. |
rValdez5987
Amarr
Imperial Guard.
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:01:00 - [ 138]
Originally by: Akita T
Hello and welcome to "I told you so".
People already calculated that even if people in W-space would work PERFECTLY with no losses whatsoever, waste no time at all, and ONLY expect at most 15 mil ISK/hour or thereabouts, while reactors and builders go without any profit at all, the price of a T3 strategic cruiser would be around half a bil ISK.
Since they're CRUISERS, dammit, I kind of doubt that amount of cash would make them sell too often... so demand for Sleeper stuff won't be all that great.
DO NOT expect CCP to properly set ratios and such for balance.
They still can't do it for the basic minerals.
How could you possibly expect them to do it for something as complex as T3 ?
Seriously...
Who gives a **** about profit... is everything seriously just about ****ing money to you damn people? I've already started down the road to building my own T3 legion. Once its done, I'm going to use it to kill people. After it dies, I'll build another. I mean cmon, thats the whole real purpose of this game, to build stuff, and lose it, pvping. Wormholes are great, it opens this game up so much. The thing that is destroying this game are those of you who can't see past your ****ing wallets while your sitting on a pile of money WHICH DOES ****ING NOTHING. |
Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative |
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:06:00 - [ 139]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Ruze
Assuming that you (figurative you, not specific, Esmenet) are the majority, and the MAJORITY of players believe like you? That's where most arguments like this fail. Not only is that arrogant, it's more often false. And even in the times it's correct?
Judging from my time playing EVE most eve players dont take risks. And the ones that do prefer to shoot other players, not npc's. Sure there are probably some that still keeps at it, but i predict many whine topics about risk and the reward of wormhole space soon enough. So unless players find some way to minimise risk (or ccp nerfs it), and get big profits (or ccp increases it) i expect that the 2500 w-space systems will be fairly empty soon.
How many players live in 0.0 and do nothing but rat? How many players live in pirate held 0.0 (which makes up less than 25% of standards nulsec, true) and do nothing more than mission? How many players use alts or jump clones to take part in missions in hisec? Regretfully, I don't have the numbers for any of those. I do know that CCP released, not long ago, a report that said the majority of players play in hisec. This number alone would seem to support your argument, but the exceptions of jump clones and alt characters for nulsec players is a strong one. I've done the asking, and it's not as rare as you might think. This would lead ME to believe that the majority of players enjoy a wide variety of things, and take risks when it suits them. Sometimes it's for gain, sometimes it's for the enjoyment. FW is still going and still thriving, believe it or not, because it's FUN for many players. And it will continue to go and thrive as a simple, early stage PvP zone. There will be a LOT of those whines, I agree. The problem I say, is that CCP shouldn't need to bend to those whines. Many players will continue to make money off of w-space, I predict. I think CCP expects, full and well, that the number of players exploring w-space right now are in no way the expected outcome. New, shiney thing comes out ... lots of the attention deprived visit, get bored, and leave. It happens with everything, in every game. New games, even. New content is always falsely popular. I actually believe CCP understands this, and is already planning around it. |
Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance |
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:07:00 - [ 140]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Ruze
Assuming that you (figurative you, not specific, Esmenet) are the majority, and the MAJORITY of players believe like you? That's where most arguments like this fail. Not only is that arrogant, it's more often false. And even in the times it's correct?
Judging from my time playing EVE most eve players dont take risks. And the ones that do prefer to shoot other players, not npc's. Sure there are probably some that still keeps at it, but i predict many whine topics about risk and the reward of wormhole space soon enough. So unless players find some way to minimise risk (or ccp nerfs it), and get big profits (or ccp increases it) i expect that the 2500 w-space systems will be fairly empty soon.
i think you hit on the main issue that current industrialists and mission runners have with w-space... similar to lowsec, they mostly stay out because of the risk of being ganked by a fleet of players. the ones that do brave these risks often have significant pvp support, and are generally NOT comprised of the average solo/small corp casual type player. so overall, for the solo/casual player, the potential profit would have to be high enough to make up the calculated losses from being ganked. and in current lowsec, the profitability is nowhere near high enough. but (soloable) w-space has the potential to be much much more profitable than current lowsec, and also less-risky or possibly much much more - basically a gamble on whether or not pirates have also found that particular w-system. |
Draku Rykenen
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:21:00 - [ 141]
When people get bored and quit doing wormholes, the items within will be ultra rare and thus much more valuable, so people will start doing WH's again. If to many keep doing them the prices will fall rapidly and they will quit again. Eventually it will find a relative equilibrium. Also, there has got be very limited demand from players still. The NPC market orders are just a baseline for the value of the materials. |
rValdez5987
Amarr
Imperial Guard.
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:22:00 - [ 142]
Originally by: Alora Venoda
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Ruze
Assuming that you (figurative you, not specific, Esmenet) are the majority, and the MAJORITY of players believe like you? That's where most arguments like this fail. Not only is that arrogant, it's more often false. And even in the times it's correct?
Judging from my time playing EVE most eve players dont take risks. And the ones that do prefer to shoot other players, not npc's. Sure there are probably some that still keeps at it, but i predict many whine topics about risk and the reward of wormhole space soon enough. So unless players find some way to minimise risk (or ccp nerfs it), and get big profits (or ccp increases it) i expect that the 2500 w-space systems will be fairly empty soon.
i think you hit on the main issue that current industrialists and mission runners have with w-space... similar to lowsec, they mostly stay out because of the risk of being ganked by a fleet of players. the ones that do brave these risks often have significant pvp support, and are generally NOT comprised of the average solo/small corp casual type player.
so overall, for the solo/casual player, the potential profit would have to be high enough to make up the calculated losses from being ganked. and in current lowsec, the profitability is nowhere near high enough. but (soloable) w-space has the potential to be much much more profitable than current lowsec, and also less-risky or possibly much much more - basically a gamble on whether or not pirates have also found that particular w-system.
Such is eve. If you want to be able to safely farm isk you can go to hell. That's what I tell the real carebears. You are supposed to make isk, so that you can spend it, and not on ships that just sit in your damn hangar. I have no problem with people who do things other then pvp to make isk, so long as the isk they make gets funneled back into pvp. Whats the point of making isk if you wont use it. |
H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits Academy
The Gurlstas Associates |
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:27:00 - [ 143]
Originally by: rValdez5987
I have no problem with people who do things other then pvp to make isk, so long as the isk they make gets funneled back into pvp.
I am already happy if the ISK they make is not used to finance whiney posts |
Esmenet
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:28:00 - [ 144]
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Ruze
Assuming that you (figurative you, not specific, Esmenet) are the majority, and the MAJORITY of players believe like you? That's where most arguments like this fail. Not only is that arrogant, it's more often false. And even in the times it's correct?
Judging from my time playing EVE most eve players dont take risks. And the ones that do prefer to shoot other players, not npc's. Sure there are probably some that still keeps at it, but i predict many whine topics about risk and the reward of wormhole space soon enough. So unless players find some way to minimise risk (or ccp nerfs it), and get big profits (or ccp increases it) i expect that the 2500 w-space systems will be fairly empty soon.
How many players live in 0.0 and do nothing but rat?
How many players live in pirate held 0.0 (which makes up less than 25% of standards nulsec, true) and do nothing more than mission?
How many players use alts or jump clones to take part in missions in hisec?
Regretfully, I don't have the numbers for any of those. I do know that CCP released, not long ago, a report that said the majority of players play in hisec. This number alone would seem to support your argument, but the exceptions of jump clones and alt characters for nulsec players is a strong one. I've done the asking, and it's not as rare as you might think.
This would lead ME to believe that the majority of players enjoy a wide variety of things, and take risks when it suits them. Sometimes it's for gain, sometimes it's for the enjoyment. FW is still going and still thriving, believe it or not, because it's FUN for many players. And it will continue to go and thrive as a simple, early stage PvP zone.
There will be a LOT of those whines, I agree. The problem I say, is that CCP shouldn't need to bend to those whines. Many players will continue to make money off of w-space, I predict.
I think CCP expects, full and well, that the number of players exploring w-space right now are in no way the expected outcome. New, shiney thing comes out ... lots of the attention deprived visit, get bored, and leave. It happens with everything, in every game. New games, even. New content is always falsely popular.
I actually believe CCP understands this, and is already planning around it.
The only risks you can mention is pvp, and that cant be compared to PVE. The only gain from PVE is ISK, and it doesnt really matter where you get it. For a real PVE challenge to be introduced you need a wow like system with upgrades you need to get yourself, and that cant be destroyed(epics). In EVE one of two things will happen: 1. The risk is minimized(nonexistant) through adapting tactics. 2. The risk isnt worth the reward and most people go back to other things. 0.0 players is just as risk averse when it comes to PVE as the average joe mission runner. Heck half the people i know in the 0.0 alliances i have been in, have a high sec alt to do the isk generation because its risk free. When it comes to risking ships in combat the majority wants to keep it to pvp. Unless the risk/reward in w-space is changed to be more profitable compared to high sec, you probably get as many w-space explorers as low sec mission runners. |
Glengrant
Beyond Limited
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:30:00 - [ 145]
The Whine is strong in this thread.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 17:32:00 - [ 146]
Edited by: Akita T on 12/03/2009 17:43:55 Originally by: rValdez5987
Who gives a **** about profit... is everything seriously just about ****ing money to you damn people?
Obviously, duuh ! You can only have so much FUN out of PvE before all you see in front of you is no longer "red crosses of doom", but big "ISK in here" piñatas. Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Rewards on the Sleepers has been studied before the release, despite what may be painted here, and thinking tech3 components are the only ISK value output you receive for destroying them is just incorrect; don’t ask, you will have to find that out by yourselves .
The "Sleeper Trade Goods" market category is no secret, just like the NPC buy orders for them. Hooray for "Sleeper tags". Quote:
No matter what the difficulty is, Sleepers bring feelings in PvE situations which were needed: fun, challenge, adaptability. That alone is the reward for some people and I also believe the fact of achieving hard to impossible odds against NPCs has been lacking for too long. I am aware I forget PvP engagements that may disrupt this activity, but you were mainly worried about Sleeper difficulty and thus I am responding to that.
No, we're worried about the fact you WANT T3 strategic cruisers to be about on par with T2 cruisers in price, and the fact people that face increased risks EXPECT increased rewards, otherwise they no longer bother. You want to know why a big part of both lowsec and 0.0 is mostly empty nowadays ? HINT : it's not because it's dangerous, it's because it's NOT WORTH MORE compared to highsec. Quote:
Of course, the whole situation may need to be tweaked with time; due to the sheer complexity and richness of the game, we unfortunately cannot foresee everything. Especially not with this release, which remains the most ambitious expansion we brought to you so far. So yes, if we estimate any changes are needed we will intervene, for we are watching.
How about this : since the content is so fresh, you start off with INSANELY HIGH drop rates, and when prices for Sleeper stuff starts to go too low for your taste due to over-saturation, you start DECREASING the drop rates. Role-play wise, it also makes sense : due to "overhunting", the Sleepers switch to "cheaper" systems, the first ones in got "la creme de la creme", the latecomers get "run of the mill". But no, that's not how you guys do things, now is it ? Quote:
But in all cases, please do not assume, get the facts .
Fact is, if you want T3 cruisers to be in the same price range as T2 cruisers (and you can only start getting T3 "parts" from Sleepers in W-space, space which is quite dangerous, so people EXPECT to get higher overall rewards than in highsec grinding easy-as-pie and nearly riskless L4s), you'd have to have an overabundance of "T3 parts" dropped left and right in W-space by the sleepers. Fact is, CCP has been notoriously bad at predicting prices, and setting drop rates in the first place (or second, or third, or one year later, OR NEVER) in order for prices to converge to the "initially desired" levels. Fact is, after a while, it becomes "meh, works this way TOO, and people got used to it, WHY BOTHER changing it now?" And those are the facts. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 18:01:00 - [ 147]
Hey, maybe CCP reverted their position on intended prices for T3 strategic cruisers, and they actually WANT them to cost 500 mil - 1 bil ISK a piece.
Maybe all devs that even hinted at the "intended pricetag" of T3 strategic cruisers as being in the same ballpark as T2 cruisers made a mistake, and they actually meant "order of magnitude", so even *5 price would still be "good enough".
It's not like there haven't been talks about this, the thread over in GD is long enough, and has plenty of numbers in it.
And it has numbers for various iterations of drop rates on SiSi, with the conservative estimate of around 500 mil ISK equilibrium price after a good while on the latest one.
There are plenty of "maybes" here, but we still have to see some CCP voice telling us "we WANT T3 cruisers to cost 200 mil ISK on average".
Then we need some CCP voice telling us that they expect the difference between "the least popular" subsystems and "the most popular" subsystems to be something between 15-20 mil for the "meh" ones and 30-40 mil a piece for the "yay" ones.
If nobody does that, all we have going for is some vague words.
So, which one is it ?
HOW MUCH do you think people should be making on average if by some miracle no player would shoot any other player in w-space but would only cooperate instead ?
HOW LONG do you want it to take until prices for T3 ships reach a relative stability ?
HOW MUCH do you want T3 cruisers to cost at that time ?
HOW BIG do you want the difference between good and not so good subsystems price to be ?
HOW OFF would prices have to be compared to your "intended" levels AND BY WHEN in order for you guys to decide "tweak time, now" ?
|
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 18:01:00 - [ 148]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 12/03/2009 18:09:07 Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Continued proof that CCP cannot predict the blindingly obvious .
Ok first off with the rest of EVES mechanics its fairly easy to find know in advance what the real level of dificulty is and be ready to deal with it. you DO NOT go to a level 1 Disgruntled Employee in a fleet op lead by a maxed fit Nyx, you DO NOT go into The Big sting with a T1 fitted Burst yelling BANZAI! Unfortunatly thats kind of what your asking people to do in the long run with the sleepers as they currently are now. We need to have a better idea of what were going to be up against before we go in so we dont end up wasting our time, if not our ships for defacto no return. trust me haveing a fleet opp spend its time doing a solo riged wormhole was not fun for us beyond the initial jokes about spontaniously exploding sleepers. frankly we would have rather passed on doing that and spend more time looking for something that was not what for us was a dry hole. Quote:
Edit ok I admit that if this was real life, going after the wanabe king of smut with a 0.0 fleet op centered around a Nyx would be hilarious
|
KhaniKirai |
Posted - 2009.03.12 18:16:00 - [ 149]
Edited by: KhaniKirai on 12/03/2009 18:18:09 Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
And no matter which kind of AI our NPCs may have, players will always have the upper hand in the end, because you all come up with a very efficient high-slot module named “brain” which will allow you to adjust your ship setups and tactics the more you get to know them.
My brain and own handle speed, can not handle : warp in cloaked, get decloaked(who knows why, because nothing was in range), (while having button already over an planet, give warp too command, get blown up, within LESS then 1 second by your BUGGED sentry guns. Yes correct, these things lock and shoot within less then 1 second. And if they are not bugged, then its BAD game design and it makes the specialized cov ops totally useless for scanning in these new systems. And somehow, i dont think that was your idea, to make that ship useless for exploration. You cant fit that ship in such a way, that it can handle sentry guns fire that does around 540 per shot, when there are like 5 sentry guns there. So that ship wont be able to adapt and can be thrown out for exploring in wormhole, if you dont fix stuff. How can we bookmark it and give the bookmark to a tank player? If you insist in decloaking stuff (even when nothing is in range of your ship, with overview ALL on?) You talk about adapting: Do u want us to start using trigger bots from 3th party programs to overcome this? |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
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Posted - 2009.03.12 18:30:00 - [ 150]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Megan Maynard
My problem, and I really like the new rats and wish all the rats were that fun to shoot, is the utter devoidness of stuff in these systems. There are Ladar and Gravametric sites but zero belts, no moon mining, and zero ability to slap a station down if someone wanted to.
Whats the appeal when I can find all of the before mentioned in 0.0? The risks are there, the stuff is there, and the pew pew is there. (Even though the rats are smarter then most pilots lmao.)
Because you can get it without being chained by the ankle to an alliance? We don't really know all of what's out there yet anyway.
Chained by the ankle? Since when did getting the resources for a station (for example) involve an alliance? No content in the systems. Just sleepers. They were fun for a bit but after a while it was kinda meh. And do any of the 0.0 wormholes go to a "lesser" system? I've seen some that take you 24 jumps or whatever but most of them are the big nasty BOOM POW WTFPWNAGE variety. Kinda predictable and boring. |
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