| Author |
Topic |
Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance |
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:31:00 - [ 1]
Was looking at the Alliance Ranking thingy - http://www.eve-maps.com/outpostalert/alliancerank.asp?SortType=Number - and as I have seen some debates recently about how 'big' an alliance has to be to claim some 0.0 decided to investigate the lower reaches of the table. This is what I have found: Smallest Sov Holding Alliances1) Coded Arms Alliance - 1 sov system - 28 members2) Crimson Dawn Alliance - 2 sov systems - 44 members 3) Blind Aces - 7 sov systems - 47 members4) Gay4Life - 1 sov system - 55 members5) Slammers Republic - 1 sov system - 57 members6) Felony 13 - 2 sov systems - 59 members7) Sparta - 2 sov systems - 64 members8) Uni****- 1 sov system - 66 members9) Immortalis Inc. Alliance - 2 sov systems - 69 members10) Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll - 2 sov systems - 81 membersSmallest Outpost Holders1) Event Horizon - 11 sov systems - 1 Outpost - 135 members 2) Soviet Mercenary - 12 sov systems - 1 Outpost - 172 members 3) BeachBoys - 5 sov systems - 1 Outpost - 207 members 4) INTERDICTION - 1 sov system - 1 Outpost - 262 members 5) RED.Overlord - 68 sov systems - 13 Outposts - 373 members 6) Cold Steel Alliance - 6 sov systems - 3 Outposts - 406 members 7) Stain Empire - 18 sov systems - 5 Outposts - 444 members 8) Aegis Militia - 6 sov systems - 2 Outposts - 446 members 9) Kraftwerk - 22 sov systems - 4 Outposts - 485 members 10) Legion of xXDEATHXx - 82 sov systems - 14 Outposts - 528 members Smallest Constellation (Sov Lvl 4) Holders1) Cold Steel Alliance - 1 Const - 406 members 2) Kraftwerk - 1 Const - 485 members 3) Legion of xXDEATHXx - 1 Const -528 members 4) C0VEN - 1 Const - 549 members 5) Paxton Federation - 1 Const - 632 members 6) SOLAR FLEET - 1 Const - 721 members 7) KIA Alliance - 2 Const - 788 members 8) Sylph Alliance - 1 Const - 813 members 9) The Initiative. - 1 Const - 918 members 10) Sev3rance - 1 Const - 1047 members And finally... a largest list... Largest alliances with no sov claims whatsoever1) Ivy league - 1079 members 2) Dead Mans Hand - 685 members 3) Veritas Immortalis - 655 members 4) Minor Threat. - 641 members 5) Axiom Empire - 598 members 6) OWN Alliance - 550 members 7) New Eden Research - 525 members 8) Alternative Realities - 511 members 9) Eradictation Alliance - 475 members 10) The Council. - 471 members I think this clearly demonstrates that the ability to obtain and hold sov is just as dependent on the ability of an alliance's leadership to work politically/diplomatically with other organisations than it is to simply have large numbers or military capability. Of course large numbers and military capability does provide negotiating leverage - but that is not always necessary! |
Serj Darek
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:37:00 - [ 2]
Edited by: Serj Darek on 09/03/2009 12:40:11
I doubt that many of those alliances are holding many r64 moons, if any. It takes a large alliance to hold r64 moons, which I think the discussion(s) you are referencing always alluded to. They could be napped with a larger alliance, which I didn't see referenced in the data set. To have a concise comparison it would be useful to include their blues to remove the alliances that are blue to large groups. Some alliances don't allow personal pos anchoring, so lot's of people join an alt alliance to moon mine and whatnot. These alliances have direct ties to a larger alliance, that most people wouldn't know about at a glance.
|
Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance |
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:41:00 - [ 3]
Probably true... still it's interesting to see so many tiny alliances with their own little chunks of EVE real estate... and there are other ways to make ISK from sov without relying on moon income. |
Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:43:00 - [ 4]
to be frank, its not difficult as a smaller entity to rent some space, or blue enough people that you can hold some
the question is if you want to do that
but I agree with the primise of the OP, you can get some space if you are part of a Naptrain or are willing to pay rent for it
but what you wont get are the Dyspo/Prom moons ;)
|
Cmndr Griff
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:04:00 - [ 5]
Edited by: Cmndr Griff on 09/03/2009 13:04:07 Quote:
1) Coded Arms Alliance - 1 sov system - 28 members
Sshh, you've blown their cover! |
Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance |
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:09:00 - [ 6]
Originally by: Cmndr Griff
Edited by: Cmndr Griff on 09/03/2009 13:04:07
Quote:
1) Coded Arms Alliance - 1 sov system - 28 members
Sshh, you've blown their cover!
Hehe yeah may have done... Personally I thought this one was impressive: 5) RED.Overlord - 68 sov systems - 13 Outposts - 373 members Talk about punching above your weight. They must really have some hardcore members to refuel all those POS |
Straightoutacompton
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162 |
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:14:00 - [ 7]
Smallest Sov Holding Alliances
1) Coded Arms Alliance - 1 sov system - 28 members
Placing bets on how long they will last with this public announcement.
500 isk says less than a month. |
Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance |
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:18:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: Straightoutacompton
Smallest Sov Holding Alliances
1) Coded Arms Alliance - 1 sov system - 28 members
Placing bets on how long they will last with this public announcement.
500 isk says less than a month.
well that is still 28 members for 1 Sov Claim Red Overlord works out at just 5.5 members per sov claim  |
Cmndr Griff
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:21:00 - [ 9]
Originally by: Straightoutacompton
Smallest Sov Holding Alliances
1) Coded Arms Alliance - 1 sov system - 28 members
Placing bets on how long they will last with this public announcement.
500 isk says less than a month.
Now that you've made it even more obvious, probably a week. x up for Coded Arms Alliance defence fleet. I did think think the Red.Overlord thing was impressive too. Interesting post mate just a shame we can't see how many friends these alliances have. |
Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance |
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:25:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Cmndr Griff
Originally by: Straightoutacompton
Smallest Sov Holding Alliances
1) Coded Arms Alliance - 1 sov system - 28 members
Placing bets on how long they will last with this public announcement.
500 isk says less than a month.
Now that you've made it even more obvious, probably a week. x up for Coded Arms Alliance defence fleet.
I did think think the Red.Overlord thing was impressive too. Interesting post mate just a shame we can't see how many friends these alliances have.
Well alliance leaders who actually pay attention to ingame politics should either already know (or at least know how to find out) very quickly! |
Serj Darek
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:29:00 - [ 11]
I am not a leader or into politics and know the answer to that question, although six of the Alliances I am not sure about. |
Totally Slick
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:35:00 - [ 12]
|
Plague Black
Caldari
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:37:00 - [ 13]
Spamming links to other games is not permitted. Navigator |
Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance |
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:41:00 - [ 14]
Yeah I know the history and not advocating that anyone attacks them or anyone on these lists.
Just thought it was impressive logistical task for a 373 man alliance to actually manage to maintain Sov in 68 systems with 13 Outposts. Under the assumption that the Outposts systems have at least 5 POS in each that's a hell of a lot of refueling on the back of a relatively small number of players.
|
Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:44:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: Totally Slick
To put this into perspective let me tell you about Red.Overlord. Red.Overlord consists of wealthy former Red Alliance members that teamed up with Against All Authorities & Stain Empire to take SOV. Hope this helps.
thats true, the list is missing a lot of context (not hardins fault, I'm sure he has better things to do than deeply research each of them) however, I don't think we can judge the small enties, and how 'impressive' or otherwise their achievement might be without that although we can say 'Red.OverLord have a dedicated logisitcs team' |
Totally Slick
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:46:00 - [ 16]
Originally by: Hardin
Yeah I know the history and not advocating that anyone attacks them or anyone on these lists.
Just thought it was impressive logistical task for a 373 man alliance to actually manage to maintain Sov in 68 systems with 13 Outposts. Under the assumption that the Outposts systems have at least 5 POS in each that's a hell of a lot of refueling on the back of a relatively small number of players.
Your guess is as good as mine when it comes to figuring out how many players handle logistics for any alliance. Could be 1 player, 0.1% of the alliance or 100% alliance membership. Unless of course you happen to have spies in every alliance or work at CCP. |
Raging Knight
Caldari
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:57:00 - [ 17]
Like what has been said, most of the small alliances with outposts are renters or are just napped to the surrounding alliances. You list Legion of death in the OP...I have a sneaky suspicion that Legion of xXDEATHXx have ties with Shadow of xXDEATHXx (over 2k members)... just speculation though  Big alliances don't necessarily want as many outposts as they can get,so if a small alliance wants to take a small section of space then that's just less refueling that the 'bigger' alliance has to do, that space is still under control of the main alliance and they most likely have all the good moons. Also whilst your here Hardin, whats the eta on providence being a completely sov 4 region?  |
Maryn Kilmak
Amarr
Eternity INC.
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:58:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: Hardin
Yeah I know the history and not advocating that anyone attacks them or anyone on these lists.
Just thought it was impressive logistical task for a 373 man alliance to actually manage to maintain Sov in 68 systems with 13 Outposts. Under the assumption that the Outposts systems have at least 5 POS in each that's a hell of a lot of refueling on the back of a relatively small number of players.
Indubitably ... why, one would almost think it their day job. |
Totally Slick
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:01:00 - [ 19]
Oh and one more thing I gotta mention, alts. So basically all those numbers are unreliable and it's very hard to draw any real conclusions from them. |
Totally Slick
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:16:00 - [ 20]
But hey don't let that stop any of you from speculating about some numbers you found on the internet that may or may not represent what you say they do. |
128th ABC123
Caldari
Lucky Clover Investments
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:26:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Hardin
Was looking at the Alliance Ranking thingy - http://www.eve-maps.com/outpostalert/alliancerank.asp?SortType=Number - and as I have seen some debates recently about how 'big' an alliance has to be to claim some 0.0 decided to investigate the lower reaches of the table.
This is what I have found:
Smallest Sov Holding Alliances
1) Coded Arms Alliance - 1 sov system - 28 members
2) Crimson Dawn Alliance - 2 sov systems - 44 members
3) Blind Aces - 7 sov systems - 47 members
4) Gay4Life - 1 sov system - 55 members
5) Slammers Republic - 1 sov system - 57 members
6) Felony 13 - 2 sov systems - 59 members
7) Sparta - 2 sov systems - 64 members
8) Uni****- 1 sov system - 66 members
9) Immortalis Inc. Alliance - 2 sov systems - 69 members
10) Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll - 2 sov systems - 81 members
Smallest Outpost Holders
1) Event Horizon - 11 sov systems - 1 Outpost - 135 members
2) Soviet Mercenary - 12 sov systems - 1 Outpost - 172 members
3) BeachBoys - 5 sov systems - 1 Outpost - 207 members
4) INTERDICTION - 1 sov system - 1 Outpost - 262 members
5) RED.Overlord - 68 sov systems - 13 Outposts - 373 members
6) Cold Steel Alliance - 6 sov systems - 3 Outposts - 406 members
7) Stain Empire - 18 sov systems - 5 Outposts - 444 members
8) Aegis Militia - 6 sov systems - 2 Outposts - 446 members
9) Kraftwerk - 22 sov systems - 4 Outposts - 485 members
10) Legion of xXDEATHXx - 82 sov systems - 14 Outposts - 528 members
Smallest Constellation (Sov Lvl 4) Holders
1) Cold Steel Alliance - 1 Const - 406 members
2) Kraftwerk - 1 Const - 485 members
3) Legion of xXDEATHXx - 1 Const -528 members
4) C0VEN - 1 Const - 549 members
5) Paxton Federation - 1 Const - 632 members
6) SOLAR FLEET - 1 Const - 721 members
7) KIA Alliance - 2 Const - 788 members
8) Sylph Alliance - 1 Const - 813 members
9) The Initiative. - 1 Const - 918 members
10) Sev3rance - 1 Const - 1047 members
And finally... a largest list...
Largest alliances with no sov claims whatsoever
1) Ivy league - 1079 members
2) Dead Mans Hand - 685 members
3) Veritas Immortalis - 655 members
4) Minor Threat. - 641 members
5) Axiom Empire - 598 members
6) OWN Alliance - 550 members
7) New Eden Research - 525 members
8) Alternative Realities - 511 members
9) Eradictation Alliance - 475 members
10) The Council. - 471 members
I think this clearly demonstrates that the ability to obtain and hold sov is just as dependent on the ability of an alliance's leadership to work politically/diplomatically with other organisations than it is to simply have large numbers or military capability. Of course large numbers and military capability does provide negotiating leverage - but that is not always necessary!
Sorry Hardin, mostly I agree with you, but dropping a control tower in some backwater 0.0 system and claiming sov isnt what is the hard part... and you can't really call it "claiming" 0.0 even though for gamemechanics it is what you are doing. |
Tellenta
Gallente
versic LLC
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:43:00 - [ 22]
Those numbers are rather soft tbh, how many of them are members of a coalition of alliances. just because they only have 100 members doesn't mean that is the max they can take to defend. |
Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
Gank Bangers
Moar Tears |
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:45:00 - [ 23]
Originally by: 128th ABC123
Sorry Hardin, mostly I agree with you, but dropping a control tower in some backwater 0.0 system and claiming sov isnt what is the hard part... and you can't really call it "claiming" 0.0 even though for gamemechanics it is what you are doing.
Why can't you call that "claiming 0.0", exactly? |
Misanth
Amarr
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Limitless Inc. |
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:46:00 - [ 24]
Edited by: Misanth on 09/03/2009 14:46:42What is this.. an interesting thread, with next to no chestbeating and derailing, with posters from all kinds of camps?  IN MY CAOD? (well, someone elses, I'm just passing by..) Either way; pretty cool list, but as posted above.. what's really interested is the r64. You want disposable capfleets, and possibly sov4 if you intend to build your own titans. The rest just makes you an attractive target.  Edit; if you intend to 'claim space', that is. If you're just into fighting, then, who cares. |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Shaktipat Revelators |
Posted - 2009.03.09 15:04:00 - [ 25]
Holding space as a small alliance generally relies upon being very friendly with your neighbours
Some people just aren't interested in that... |
Lilly Tigress
Caldari
Appetite 4 Destruction
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 15:32:00 - [ 26]
thank you hardin for a post finally not consisting of bulls*** like the other ton of posts, informative as well , thumbs up  |
Smalum
Gallente
Dark Knights of Deneb
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 15:32:00 - [ 27]
why thank you Hardin, you aint that ugly yourself <3 |
Interconnector
Minmatar
United Amarr Templar Legion
Fidelas Constans |
Posted - 2009.03.09 15:38:00 - [ 28]
it doesn't say much but it is interesting to see. |
Esharan
Caldari
No.Mercy
Merciless. |
Posted - 2009.03.09 15:46:00 - [ 29]
Just cause an alliance lacks sov. does not mean it does not have space..... There are some regions that you can't get sov. remember :) and those area's can be very good too I think ;)
Just because an alliance has sov. does not mean its any good, and it may be in REAL crappy space under the auspices of another larger alliance telling em what to do right? |
Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
Gank Bangers
Moar Tears |
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:12:00 - [ 30]
I think what's more interesting is the commentary coming from several alliances who waste no time pointing out "those other guys" that only own 0.0 because of NAPs, rental agreements, or staking out truly terrible space, while ignoring the fact that the only reason they have space is because of NAPs, rental agreements, or because they staked out some truly heinous space that no one wants to fight over.
It's always "those other guys" in that other alliance over the, but never ourselves and our alliance. |
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